9/11 - The Great Nose In Nose Out Hoax

Discussion of the most controversial 9/11 theories. Evidenced discussions over whether particular individuals are genuine 9/11 Truthers or moles and/or shills and other personal issues.

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ollieb
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Post by ollieb »

The time and effort Lawson took to make that film.....there's no way he was'nt paid.Sorry mate,the way you talk about this stuff,why would you go to such lengths to to slander this guy
Last edited by ollieb on Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by John White »

Well thanks for that ollieb, its not reciprocated as I dont even know you

a few points

1) Your argument that lawson must be paid becuase it took time to make his film applies even more so to Shack, doesnt it? I dont see a need to think that of shack so I certainly dont see a need to think that of Lawson

2) This is a debating section not a yes-man section: in fact, no area of the site is a yes-man section

3) Is dealt with because you made an edit
Last edited by John White on Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by chek »

Yeah well, it's like this Ollie - usually the Emperor's hangers on don't like it either when you point out their emperor isn't wearing any clothes

But somebody has to point out the obvious, that the emperor is nekkid.
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Post by ollieb »

I call it like I see it.The government clearly pays overtime.It is late boys.
And I'll say what i want.We're all big boys.Deal with it.......10 hours,listen to yourself......
Last edited by ollieb on Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by John White »

ollieb wrote:I call it like I see it.The government clearly pays overtime.It is late boys.
And I'll say what i want.We're all big boys.Deal with it.......10 hours,listen to yourself.......still hate you....
So your a paid agent then? Your up too!
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Post by ollieb »

TICK.....TICK
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Post by ollieb »

Remember Wizard,I've been reading your contibutions over the last few months.....and all I know is you're NO Wizard......
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Post by John White »

Whatever mate, join the queue
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Post by Anthony Lawson »


Double Wrong
ollieb wrote:The time and effort Lawson took to make that film.....there's no way he was'nt paid.Sorry mate,the way you talk about this stuff,why would you go to such lengths to to slander this guy
Ace Baker and his crowd asked me to do a paid voice over for what I soon learned was to be a no-planes video, and I refused when I discovered their real agenda. Until then, I thought that the no-plane clowns were not doing much damage, but I later realised that they were, which prompted me to debunk as many of their lies as possible. And be informed that calling someone who tells provable lies a liar is not slander; it is called telling the truth.

You are another of the kind who gives the 9/11 truth movement a bad image, swearing and uttering obscenities all over the place to try and reinforce your own agenda, whatever it is. Your language tells it all. You are bereft of ideas, and like to criticize those who believe that lies need to be shown for what they are. Or is it that you are one of those who want to see the lies do even more damage?

Find someone who says that they have paid me for any of my contributions to the 9/11 truth movement and you will have found another liar.

Why don't you put your filthy mouth to better use, rather than using it to slag off those who really do believe that the truth matters? A concept which you obviously cannot comprehend.
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Post by ollieb »

Lawson....I love the way you keep replying relentlessly to every NPT supporter.Your explanation for your passion for debunking is embarassing.If it is so obsured WHY keep coming back again and again.You are clearly intellegent,so this constant bickering should be beneath you,but for some reason its not.Gotta pay the bills i suppose.
I await your long winded reply.......I am sure the Wizard told you,but my origional email was edited
P.S...Wizard,many apologies for my previous conduct.But if you are assuming the role of Speaker of the House,some impartiality would be nice.
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Post by John White »

Wizard,many apologies for my previous conduct.But if you are assuming the role of Speaker of the House,some impartiality would be nice.
Your having your say from what I can see Ollieb, and I can seperate my own opinion out to ensure you have the right to do so. My only concern with my role as admin is members behaviour to each other, not their views
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Post by Caz »

Maybe I'm wrong here, and haven't looked at all of this closely enough, but if my memory is correct, is it the case that all the witnesses 'heard an explosion' or variations on that, and none of them actually 'saw' anything....????

Anyone able to confirm this??
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Post by chek »

Caz wrote:Maybe I'm wrong here, and haven't looked at all of this closely enough, but if my memory is correct, is it the case that all the witnesses 'heard an explosion' or variations on that, and none of them actually 'saw' anything....????

Anyone able to confirm this??
It's a case of selecting witnesses on the north and east side who didn't see the plane which hit WTC2, as it approached from the southwest.

There are exceptions who weren't looking or otherwise not paying attention, but that's the basic scenario the NPT pranksters exploit.
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Post by Caz »

I'd still like confirmation though.... a film, piece of footage, recording.. from witnesses who 'saw'....
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Post by chek »

Caz wrote:I'd still like confirmation though.... a film, piece of footage, recording.. from witnesses who 'saw'....

This site has a large round up of eyewitness accounts.

http://www.911disinformation.com/noplan ... dence.html
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Post by Caz »

thanks Chek, will have a look....
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Post by Newspeak International »

Caz, this may also be of use to you regarding the eyewitness accounts:

http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/i ... &Itemid=60
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Post by Andrew Johnson »

Here we go again ay? Same old posters "shepherding" these threads....

How about this one: brittle aluminium wing struts cut through steel girders.

It's a real laugh!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdzx85klMYk[/youtube]

Also, if you check the comments from the JREF forum at the end of my witness study article, they're not that far removed from some of the comments on this thread by people who nevertheless say 9/11 was an Inside Job etc. Funny old world, in't'it?
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Post by sam »

Andrew Johnson wrote: How about this one: brittle aluminium wing struts cut through steel girders.

It's a real laugh!!
Funny old world, in't'it?
Rubber and felt tennis ball smashes rock-hard window pane.

Karate bloke's flesh-and-blood hand smashes roof tiles.

Soft lead bullet pierces much harder steel plate.

How do these things happen? Makes no sense to me!
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Post by chek »

Andrew Johnson wrote:Here we go again ay? Same old posters "shepherding" these threads....

How about this one: brittle aluminium wing struts cut through steel girders.

It's a real laugh!!

Also, if you check the comments from the JREF forum at the end of my witness study article, they're not that far removed from some of the comments on this thread by people who nevertheless say 9/11 was an Inside Job etc. Funny old world, in't'it?
Ay here we go again, same old Andrew promoting his same old, same old misrepresentations, like a plane crashed into the entire mass of a building rather than one single area of it.

Paranoid and warning consenting adults of the dangers of being "shepherded", no doubt brought to mind by the experience of his resident posse of intellectual heavyweight repeaters who probably do need "shepherding" to distinguish between their leg/hip junctures and their mid arm joints.

Tell you what Andrew - please post me a photo from your extensive ... er ..."research" of one of them there 'circular holes' that still looks 'circular' when zoomed in from closer than 2000 ft away.

Not really circular at all are they?
In fact it's a bit like (and you'll like this) the canals on Mars syndrome that aren't really even continuous lines really, innit?
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Post by Jack »

Andrew Johnson wrote:Here we go again ay? Same old posters "shepherding" these threads....

How about this one: brittle aluminium wing struts cut through steel girders.

It's a real laugh!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdzx85klMYk[/youtube]

Also, if you check the comments from the JREF forum at the end of my witness study article, they're not that far removed from some of the comments on this thread by people who nevertheless say 9/11 was an Inside Job etc. Funny old world, in't'it?
aarrh such a mindnumbingly inane video.
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Post by chek »

Jack wrote:aarrh such a mindnumbingly inane video.
And so badly edited too.

I wonder if The Moody Blues are being recompensed for their material being so misused and abused?
Not that I ever liked them much anyway.

Don't give up the day job Andrew, even if this does nudge slightly into Nico's Xmas top 250.
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Post by gruts »

sam wrote:
Andrew Johnson wrote: How about this one: brittle aluminium wing struts cut through steel girders.

It's a real laugh!!
Funny old world, in't'it?
Rubber and felt tennis ball smashes rock-hard window pane.

Karate bloke's flesh-and-blood hand smashes roof tiles.

Soft lead bullet pierces much harder steel plate.

How do these things happen? Makes no sense to me!
good points sam....

and just in case you're unfamiliar with andrew's previous work (or just fancy a good laugh) - his childish attempts to ridicule steven jones in the video below reveal not only his lack of maturity, but also his ignorance of the well-known phenomenon that Jones is describing (try googling the Leidenfrost effect). I wonder if andrew realises how foolish this makes him appear to anyone who has heard of it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tou71StrOb0

and I have to say that his "were we fooled again" video is - in my humble opinion - the most stoopid NPT vid of all time - and that's really saying something (the bit where he sets fire to the can of petrol and throws it down the stairs is priceless!)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6m8KOchYok

I started a thread about it a while back, but funnily enough, there was no response from Andrew or his usual cheerleaders: http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=11984

however, based on this kind of evidence, if he told me the sun came up this morning I'd ask for a second opinion....

as for judy wood - watching her interview with greg jenkins really puts the credibility of her claims into perspective - ie when a real scientist asks her a few simple questions about her "theory", she's completely incapable of answering them.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/8110

it's also (for me at least) another rich source of unintentional humour....
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Post by chek »

gruts wrote: as for judy wood - watching her interview with greg jenkins really puts the credibility of her claims into perspective - ie when a real scientist asks her a few simple questions about her "theory", she's completely incapable of answering them.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/8110

it's also (for me at least) another rich source of unintentional humour....
Be fair though - after all if you'd been driving all day, then done a presentation, then been ambushed by a film crew with a well lit interviewer, I'm sure you or any of us would have a hard time remembering what our job was.

Ooops - better be careful; after all isn't sarcasm a form of humour devised and only practised by jews??? (as I read on the premier no planer site only this morning.)
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Post by gruts »

chek wrote:Be fair though - after all if you'd been driving all day, then done a presentation, then been ambushed by a film crew with a well lit interviewer, I'm sure you or any of us would have a hard time remembering what our job was.
ambushed?

the interview is conducted in an extremely cordial manner and judy wood is given every opportunity to explain herself. unfortunately she's completely incapable of explaining what her "theory" is, let alone back it up with anything, and doesn't seem to understand basic scientific terms....
chek wrote:
Jack wrote:aarrh such a mindnumbingly inane video.
And so badly edited too.

I wonder if The Moody Blues are being recompensed for their material being so misused and abused?
Not that I ever liked them much anyway.

Don't give up the day job Andrew, even if this does nudge slightly into Nico's Xmas top 250.
it is a very poor effort in every respect and the music is pretty dire. however, I'm sure that once somebody like fred has remixed it and turned it into a mashup filled with images that appeal to what webfairy called the "porn surfers and pretty girl appreciator demographic" - it can still be a big hit in tv fakery land....
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Post by utopiated »

Image

Forget TV fakery etc - you just need to answer the eternal question none of the parrots here answer!!

How does conventional demolition methods and thermate destroy cars in this manner?

Why were tritium levels so much higher on the days after the event?

Does thermate cause a massive EMP pulse-like effect?


Here's Ted the NASA engineer. I can post audio of him others going into detail on this area.

===

What May Have Melted
The WTC Vehicles
From Ted Twietmeyer


To come up with a theory to explain "toasted vehicles" at the WTC we need to have a solution that explains the cause of the damage found with these vehicles. It clearly appears that the damage is the result of a weapon, and not the result of an ordinary fire or ignition source.

First, let's briefly look at other phenomena of a highly unusual nature. With spontaneous human combustion (SHC) events, we rarely see the body is consumed 100%. Usually the area below the knees is relatively intact. It is believed that the reason is a lack of fat in this area of the body. However, the cause of the initial combustion event remains somewhat of a mystery. Some theories state that SHC is the result of metabolism which is out of control for unknown reasons. There is a well documented case of a man who was simply driving down the road during the day, when his left arm began to smoke. Fortunately he didn't die from it, but no cause for it was found by doctors. Only SHC could be the cause.

I am not directly comparing destroyed vehicles at the WTC to SHC. This is intended to strictly serve as an analogy only. There is always an explanation for bizarre phenomena, whether it is fully understood or not. In the case of the WTC, damage occurred to vehicles located some distance away from the WTC on Roosevelt Dr.

At the WTC, there is strong evidence that a shaped (see papers by Dr. Ed Ward, MD on Rense.com - ed) nuclear device(s) were used. In building demolition, charges are often placed near the base of the building on columns. These columns are often weakened by removing some of the material, to insure that cutting charges will work correctly. Charges are angled to slice the column diagonally, so the weight of the building will insure it slides off at a slight angle, and doesn't simply drop straight down and stop moving.

None of this would be required when using a nuclear device. All building columns in the vicinity (at least several hundred feet) would be vaporized almost instantly, bringing the building straight down. Steel found in molten form months after the collapse is a sure sign of extreme heat, probably nuclear in origin. However, few have considered there is yet another effect of using a nuclear device. It's an electromagnetic pulse. The power of this pulse unleashed by a nuclear detonation is almost unimaginable.

EDDY CURRENTS

What does an electromagnetic pulse do? First, we need to look at the effects and uses of eddy currents induced by a strong magnetic field. There are amusement park rides such as Kinda-Ka that use eddy currents for braking. This braking system works on the eddy current principle. An array of stationary magnets is raised under the aluminum plates mounted on the bottom of each car as they approach the station. This creates powerful high current, low voltage eddy currents in the aluminum plates as the cars pass over the magnets. These currents form temporary, opposite magnetic fields that cause attraction to the passing magnets under the tracks. Cars are slowed to a complete stop. This is a perfect self- regulating braking system ­ as long as the magnets are raised at the right time.

In older electric meters there is a silver disk. This disk directly drives gears which move the hands on the dial. That disk is actually made of aluminum. It is rotated by invisible magnetic fields from coils inside the meter. The more current your home draws through these coils, the faster the disk rotates. This is yet another example of eddy currents put to a practical use.

Rail guns use eddy currents to deform heavy copper rails, which accelerate a projectile to fantastic speeds. These guns used for mainly for research, and must be rebuilt after each firing to remove the deformed copper bars.

And else do eddy currents create? HEAT if the currents are strong enough. The stronger the eddy currents, the more heat which will be generated. Although magnetic fields are being created, they are temporary in aluminum because it is not magnetic, but paramagnetic. This means aluminum will be affected by magnetism, but it cannot be magnetized. Water is paramagnetic as well. Almost anything that conducts electricity but will not be attracted to a permanent magnet can be considered paramagnetic.

With this understanding of eddy current effects, let's look at the damage seen at the WTC and see how eddy currents can fit the observations.=

Image

Missing mirrors
- all vehicle mirrors in use today are a glass or plastic plate with an aluminum reflective coating on the back. This coating is conductive to electricity and hence, eddy currents. A strong magnetic pulse induced into the mirror would cause tremendous stress as the field interacted with the steel mirror housing. The glass would shatter, blowing out most of the glass and the surrounding gasket. It appears that a small fragment of the mirror can still be seen in the housing above. Note the metal trim around the wing window on the driver's door appears as though it was overheated as well. Although the steering wheel appears to be intact, it is possible the steel body of the vehicle has shielded the steering wheel from the pulse. Any magnetic pulse will have less strength with the square of the distance, so it is possible this truck was near the outer fringes of the damage threshold.

What we still do not know is what damage occurred INSIDE apartments and businesses in the surrounding buildings.

Image

This windshield damage may have resulted from an intense magnetic field in the metal trim around the windshield which became magnetic and interacted with the steel body. Two headlights appear blown out, and two others do not. It's also possible another vehicle was parked between the blast or pulse source and the driver's front side of the truck. This could shield the driver's side headlight from the magnetic pulse. There may have also been a pressure wave involved as well that caused this damage, as considerable trash is seen embedded in the grill. It cannot be easily determined whether a blast wave or a magnetic pulse blew out this windshield. This vehicle was clearly not exposed to the pulse magnitude which other vehicles were, or the damage would be far more. Again, the distance and orientation from the pulse source is not known.





Other vehicles have missing engine blocks, which probably vaporized from tremendous eddy currents. Intense heat would flash-ignite volatile fluids under the hood such as grease on engine parts and fluids like transmission fluid, power steering fluid, gasoline in the fuel system, brake fluid and engine oil. A tremendous fireball under the hood would completely destroy the engine and the entire front of the vehicle as we see above. And this is exactly what we see with many vehicles. Note how the fire stops right at the junction of the left front fender and driver's side door. This is consistent with other vehicle photographs.

Note that steel can become extremely hot from eddy currents, even though steel is magnetic and not paramagnetic. However, steel has a far higher melting point than aluminum. It would hot very quickly with a pulse of sufficient strength to easily ignite paint and rubber.

We must answer another question - why would certain vehicles have damage and not others? Why would only certain parts of them be damaged, and other areas remain pristine? The answer lies in magnetic SHIELDING. Magnetic pulses are like other electromagnetic energy, which radiates out from a source in a straight line unless they wrap around back to their source (such as a bar magnet does.) However, these magnetic pulses were not generated with a bar magnet, but by a very different means. When a magnetic field hits steel, the energy becomes trapped and barely penetrates it. By drawing lines across the tops of cars with damaged and undamaged areas, we can determine the general direction and height of the source of the pulse. Initial observations using vectors show that the nuclear device or pulse source was not underground, but higher up. This is also is supported by the standing floors at ground level after the building's collapse.



Image

"SACRIFICIAL VEHICLES" PROVIDE SHIELDING
FOR OTHER VEHICLES AND SHOW PULSE VECTORS

A vector is simply a line that shows direction and usually has an arrow. Arrows are not shown above, in an attempt to simplify the image. The direction of force is from upper left to lower right. The notated image above provides a possible explanation for the location of the source of the magnetic pulse, and why some vehicles were damaged and others were not. This parking lot may be the best evidence in support of my theory.

Yellow lines indicate the pulse(s) blocked by the rear row of vehicles. It appears the entire outside of all rear vehicles were destroyed. Note how several hoods on the rear row of vehicles have white dust or ash, indicating an intense heat originating from under the hood. This is probably caused by the engine block vaporizing, and the white dust may be aluminum oxide. If the vehicles are still around somewhere in a junk yard, some simple lab tests will confirm this.

White lines show the pulses that reached the vehicles in the foreground.

Orange shapes around each car show the damage threshold line. The cars are basically undamaged below these lines and some might be repairable. If it wasn't for "sacrificial" vehicles at the rear, those in the foreground would have been completely burned.

Note that white and yellow lines are not meant to be a literal interpretation to show size of the pulse, how many lines of force hit each vehicle, etc... Each line is intended to show only the direction the pulse(s) came from. Regardless of whether this parking lot is close to the WTC or not, it clearly shows that the nuclear device (or pulse source) was high above the ground. If the pulse source were close to the Earth, then vehicles in the foreground would have been completely shielded from the pulse.

In reality, magnetic pulse lines would have been so dense that if all of them were to be drawn here, you wouldn't even be able to see any vehicles in the picture. It would be a sea of lines.

Image


Van (right) provided some shielding for the blue pickup truck (center.) Rear body of the pickup truck above the van does have severe damage. Dust on the ground below the vehicles appears to show these vehicles were in place when the WTC collapsed, except for the white pickup truck (far left) which has no damage at all. Because of the direction of the pulse, the windshield on the blue pickup truck is largely intact and undamaged.

Vehicles missing steering wheels are explainable using eddy current theory. Most steering wheels have a circular steel rod in the center. In electrical terms, a steering wheel is a shorted 1 turn coil. If you induce a sufficiently powerful magnetic pulse into any shorted coil, it will vaporize very quickly because of excessive current (amperage.) The hot steel core inside the steering wheel would ignite the surrounding molded plastic, and the steering wheel would be completely gone. The time required to vaporize a steering wheel in this way is dependent on the length of the pulse and the power level. Missing or vaporized steering wheels are perhaps some of the best evidence for a pulse or weapon theory.

CONCLUSION

Evidence is overwhelming that either a nuclear device or advanced weapon technology was used at the WTC. Missing engine blocks along with only partial destruction of the same vehicles show that this type of damage was not caused by heat. There may have been a blast wave that hit some of these vehicles in conjunction with a magnetic pulse. A powerful magnetic pulse(s) appears to have taken place, and the source clearly was not at ground level but much higher.

The power level required to flash-ignite vehicles is almost beyond comprehension, especially at distances of several hundred feet away. This would require a multi-gigawatt power levels to cause such destruction.
(1 gigawatt = 1 million-million watts.)

We cannot fully determine the height of the pulse source from images found thus far, but it certainly this is not the result of a building(s) collapsing to the ground.

Nor is it the result of plane(s) crashing into the WTC more than 1,000 feet above.
==
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Post by chek »

utopiated wrote:Image

Forget TV fakery etc - you just need to answer the eternal question none of the parrots here answer!!
==
Actually, I think you'll find that Andrew and his little clique of braindead parrots are very much against the nuclear option.
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Post by utopiated »

Well if you take the model/MO of the Murrah building and assume a similar one was used for WTC there are strong similarities.

Image

...and the whole idea of excluding ONE lot of advanced tech for another when we know sweet FA about this area seems a little silly.

What's wrong with the post-cartesian and/or approach these days?? It was either mini-nukes and/or some sort of directed energy.

Bill Deagle reckons it was a mix of thermate, 4th gen mini nukes and thermate at OK bombing.
"There were micronuclear bombs placed on support pillars in the walls of the Federal Building, by special units of the ATF and FBI. They were paged out not to enter the building on the morning of the detonation, and the Federal Judge was warned to cancel court that day. We removed to undetonated softball sized micronuclear bombs, and one C4 pineapple bomb, attached to the pillars of the remaining building."
Dr. William Deagle


Interestingly Canary Wharf some have suggested was non-conventional [and thus possibly above govt. activated]. I remember Gerry Adams being totally shocked as there was a ceasefire in operation i believe at the time...

Image
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utopiated wrote:Bill Deagle reckons it was a mix of thermate, 4th gen mini nukes and thermate at OK bombing.
"There were micronuclear bombs placed on support pillars in the walls of the Federal Building, by special units of the ATF and FBI. They were paged out not to enter the building on the morning of the detonation, and the Federal Judge was warned to cancel court that day. We removed to undetonated softball sized micronuclear bombs, and one C4 pineapple bomb, attached to the pillars of the remaining building."
Dr. William Deagle


Interestingly Canary Wharf some have suggested was non-conventional [and thus possibly above govt. activated]. I remember Gerry Adams being totally shocked as there was a ceasefire in operation i believe at the time...

Image
Well personally I reckon it were more truckloads of thermate and thermobaric rocket fuel compounds than you could shake many a stick at, good sir, but then again who can say for sure at this point without a properly constituted investigation that seeks to explain rather than obscure?

The one thing we can be 100% sure of at this point, is that promoting absolute boll*cks will get us absolutely nowhere.
Dissolution of the Global Corporations.
It's the only way.

It's them or us.
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fish5133
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Post by fish5133 »

In relation to the collapse of the WTCs at what point would the cars in the parking lot have been affected by this "electromagnetic energy"
I ask this as I havent come across any eyewitness testimony of cars in car parks melting. I think it would have been fairly noticeable if the engine block of a car suddenly melted in front of you.
Obviously if it was happening as the tower collapsed then I can understand people wouldnt have been hanging around to watch a car engine block melting.
JO911B.
"for we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this world, against wicked spirits in high places " Eph.6 v 12
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