Bank of England fuelled debt crisis intentionally

[Roger the Horse]

Ex-Governor George says Bank deliberately fuelled consumer boom
By Jane Padgham
The Indepenent
Published: 21 March 2007


The Bank of England deliberately stoked the consumer boom that has led to
record house prices and personal debt in order to avert a recession, the
former Bank Governor Eddie George admitted yesterday.

Lord George said he and his colleagues on the Monetary Policy Committee "did
not have much of a choice" as they battled to prevent the UK being dragged
into a worldwide economic slump by slashing interest rates. And he said his
legacy to the current MPC was to "sort out" the problems he had caused.

Lord George, who headed the Bank for a decade from 1993, revealed to MPs on
the Treasury Select Committee that he knew the approach was not sustainable.
"In the environment of global economic weakness at the beginning of this
decade... external demand was declining and related to that, business
investment was declining," he said. "We only had two alternative ways of
sustaining demand and keeping the economy moving forward - one was public
spending and the other was consumption.

"We knew that we were having to stimulate consumer spending. We knew we had
pushed it up to levels which couldn't possibly be sustained into the medium
and long term. But for the time being, if we had not done that, the UK
economy would have gone into recession just as the United States did."

He said he was "very conscious" that stimulating consumer demand could give
rise to problems in the future. "My legacy to the MPC, if you like, has been
'sort that out'," he said. Under Lord George's governorship, rates were
slashed from 6 per cent in 2001 to 3.5 per cent in 2003, pushing house price
inflation above 25 per cent and high street spending growth to its highest
since the late-Eighties boom.

In a wide-ranging discussion on the first 10 years of the MPC, Lord George
also rejected suggestions that the MPC should target specific concerns such
as soaring house prices, arguing that it was vital to take the broader
picture of the economy.

Meanwhile, Kate Barker, a current MPC member, said in a speech last night
that interest rate changes might become more frequent as the committee
tackles volatile energy prices, rising inflation expectations and increasing
pricing power. "This is a different kind of uncertainty from worries about
demand which have been more usual during my time on the MPC, and I suggest
that this may prompt a change in observed behaviour towards more frequent
interest rate changes," she told the CBI North East dinner.


So that'd be deliberately created debt nightmares on both sides of the Atlantic then? Anyone get the feeling we've been set up for a big fall?

[johndoe]

the debt crisis is not the fault of the banks but the fault of greedy or stupid people who are incapable of spending within their means.

[Roger the Horse]

Not greedy or stupid bankers encouraging people to spend outside their means then?

[ZUCO]

I think the majority of people do spend within their means but with inflation rising much faster than pay rises this is becoming increasingly difficult. I personally received a pay rise of 2.75%. This is below the current rate of inflation so my pay "rise" is effectively a pay CUT. luckily for the politicians they get to decide how big their own pay rises are (usually around 70%) so I'm sure they'll look after us once they've finished watching their bank balances grow

The banks don't really want to make it easy for people to pay back money. The mafia use scare tactics to put you in a position were you are indebted to them. Then you're in their "pocket" and can never escape. Banks do a similar thing. The government does the "scare tactics" by pricing people out of homes and generally making it difficult to survive on their wages. The people are forced to either get a loan or credit card or some other form of credit in order to feed and clothe their children and keep a roof over their heads. So the banks are always the winners. It's hard to watch TV these days without seeing adverts for loans and credit cards or consolidating debt. Its inescapable. The only people who can do without these things are the rich.

ps America and the UK each have national debts totalling trillions of pounds. Does that make each government "greedy" and "stupid" too? I'd like to thin you kept the same standards and didn't excuse one particular group of people

[blackcat]

the debt crisis is not the fault of the banks but the fault of greedy or stupid people who are incapable of spending within their means.

Is it greedy or stupid to want a place to live? The only stupidity is trusting the system which is loaded against working people.

[rodin]

the debt crisis is not the fault of the banks but the fault of greedy or stupid people who are incapable of spending within their means.

By this reply you have revealed yourself as an agent for the criminal elite. Not that the writing was not on your wall already

[Johnny Pixels]

Ex-Governor George says Bank deliberately fuelled consumer boom
By Jane Padgham
The Indepenent
Published: 21 March 2007


The Bank of England deliberately stoked the consumer boom that has led to
record house prices and personal debt in order to avert a recession, the
former Bank Governor Eddie George admitted yesterday.

Lord George said he and his colleagues on the Monetary Policy Committee "did
not have much of a choice" as they battled to prevent the UK being dragged
into a worldwide economic slump by slashing interest rates. And he said his
legacy to the current MPC was to "sort out" the problems he had caused.

So you would have preferred them to have let the economy slip into recession?

And this doesn't look like a planned monetary attack on the consumer, if they didn't have much of a choice.

[conspiracy analyst]

Debt financing is now labelled a consumer boom.
Much like we are told ad nauseum that we live in an era of low inflation, low unemployment and low interest rates...

What they forget to state is that property prices in a ten year period have suffered hyperinflation, that first time buyers now have to be around 34 years of age and you have to have a multiple of x5 of your salary to get on the property ladder which for many is in the form of 40 year mortgages even mortgages which can be passed onto your offspring.

Or that unemployment is around 8 million.
Or that if you need £500k to buy a flat having a low interest rate for such a large amount makes no difference if your wages are pegged to the floor.

In other words alongside credit cards, financing of loans for cars, settees, furniture etc. banks have become in everybodys life indefinitely.

Alongside generalised privatisation and sub-contracting as well as massive government subsidies we have arrived at the corporate state of pre-war Italy. With the difference being that at least then they still made a few things all of ours are being imported.

[Roger the Horse]

Ex-Governor George says Bank deliberately fuelled consumer boom
By Jane Padgham
The Indepenent
Published: 21 March 2007


The Bank of England deliberately stoked the consumer boom that has led to
record house prices and personal debt in order to avert a recession, the
former Bank Governor Eddie George admitted yesterday.

Lord George said he and his colleagues on the Monetary Policy Committee "did
not have much of a choice" as they battled to prevent the UK being dragged
into a worldwide economic slump by slashing interest rates. And he said his
legacy to the current MPC was to "sort out" the problems he had caused.

So you would have preferred them to have let the economy slip into recession?

And this doesn't look like a planned monetary attack on the consumer, if they didn't have much of a choice.

Whatever their motives may be, by doing this they have simply put off and increased the likely pain of a recession.

[johndoe]

"Not greedy or stupid bankers encouraging people to spend outside their means then?"

you can alwys say no.

"Is it greedy or stupid to want a place to live?"

this isn't about stuff like mortgages, this is about credit cards and small loans. which are the product of people spending outside their means.

"By this reply you have revealed yourself as an agent for the criminal elite."

criminal? me? no.

[blackcat]

this isn't about stuff like mortgages

Yes it is.

[Thermate]

So that'd be deliberately created debt nightmares on both sides of the Atlantic then? Anyone get the feeling we've been set up for a big fall?

Yup, but I'm debt free so... \o/

[conspiracy analyst]

Yup, but I'm debt free so... \o/

You might well be.
But if everything is now imported which appears to be the way big business is taking us, then a collapse in the value of sterling will mean in the not too distant future that whilst debt free you will still need to eat.

Concrete is hard to digest if the financial system implodes from the debt burden.

When we are producing zero living within our means may take a menacing new meaning...

[wepmob2000]

the debt crisis is not the fault of the banks but the fault of greedy or stupid people who are incapable of spending within their means.

Have you tried to buy a house as a first time buyer within, say, the last three years? Even the shabbiest little street house is outside the means of even those who earn above average earnings, even in a fleapit of a town like Hartlepool. It's not the 1970's, you really do need to saddle yourself with an undesireable level of debt, if you want to buy any property.

As Conspirator rightly points out, we produce diddly squat in this country now, and even service sector jobs are slowly being outsourced to countries like India. It seems the period of stable growth Gordon Brown is so proud of is nothing less than a scam, the growth in GDP being fuelled by increasing debt, not productivity. This is an overheated economy just waiting to implode, a fair sized increase in the rate of interest will ensure that it does.

Its pretty scary when you look at it, that is, the amount of economic activity in this country reliant on the service sector, always the worst hit sector in times of recession......

[blackcat]

even in a fleapit of a town like Hartlepool

That's very insulting. What have fleapits done to deserve comparison with Hartlepool?

[wepmob2000]

even in a fleapit of a town like Hartlepool

That's very insulting. What have fleapits done to deserve comparison with Hartlepool?

Point taken, I apologise

[rodin]

the debt crisis is not the fault of the banks but the fault of greedy or stupid people who are incapable of spending within their means.

Have you tried to buy a house as a first time buyer within, say, the last three years? Even the shabbiest little street house is outside the means of even those who earn above average earnings, even in a fleapit of a town like Hartlepool. It's not the 1970's, you really do need to saddle yourself with an undesireable level of debt, if you want to buy any property.

As Conspirator rightly points out, we produce diddly squat in this country now, and even service sector jobs are slowly being outsourced to countries like India. It seems the period of stable growth Gordon Brown is so proud of is nothing less than a scam, the growth in GDP being fuelled by increasing debt, not productivity. This is an overheated economy just waiting to implode, a fair sized increase in the rate of interest will ensure that it does.

Its pretty scary when you look at it, that is, the amount of economic activity in this country reliant on the service sector, always the worst hit sector in times of recession......

Did not Gordon Brown come up with the clever idea that you could buy just half a home with the gov or a bank owning the other half? So even when you pay off yer mortgage (fat chance) you only own half? Brilliant!

I'm out of here ASAP. US and UK and parts of EU not formerly SU set up for a fall IMO. My advice? Salvage what you can, put it into tangibles and get situated in a self-sufficient country with low overheads. And broadband

[karlos]

the consumer boom is a lie. People in britain owe over £1,000,000,000,000,000 in credit cards and personal loans. How does people borrowing that money and buying playstation3 and going on holiday to spain help anyone?
Does it create jobs NO
Does it help the environment, does it improve our health, does it mean that we will probably still be in debt when we are 65+
Some retirement.
But the economy today is in recession. The new labour media are not saying it but look on any high street and see the to let signs on shops especially restaurants and consumer type of businesses.
How many estate agents do we need? Buoyed up by cuts in stamp duty to stoke up the property inflation. Have you noticed how Labour MPs including Blair seem to buy lots of houses.

So yes the Bank of England acting on behalf of Gordon McBrown did create this problem deliberately.

[karlos]

Yup, but I'm debt free so... \o/

You might well be.
But if everything is now imported which appears to be the way big business is taking us, then a collapse in the value of sterling will mean in the not too distant future that whilst debt free you will still need to eat.

Concrete is hard to digest if the financial system implodes from the debt burden.

When we are producing zero living within our means may take a menacing new meaning...

I agree with conspirator. Everything today is imported the only thing keeping sterling up is the inward flight of money from russian mafia and arabs, Indian Billionairres and americans looking for a safe haven,
The dollar is collapsing, and they are coming here because britain gives tax advantages to this mega rich these days.
For example Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou the former owner of easyjet was quoted in the Guardian as saying the he PAYS NO UK TAX at all because he reckons he has no UK income. Yet he lives here owns several businesses and properties here and employs a number of people here and makes alot of money her, and since he donated money to the labour party was rewarded with a peerage.
Conspirator maybe you can investiagte further?

[conspiracy analyst]

I agree with conspirator. Everything today is imported the only thing keeping sterling up is the inward flight of money from russian mafia and arabs, Indian Billionairres and americans looking for a safe haven,
The dollar is collapsing, and they are coming here because britain gives tax advantages to this mega rich these days.
For example Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou the former owner of easyjet was quoted in the Guardian as saying the he PAYS NO UK TAX at all because he reckons he has no UK income. Yet he lives here owns several businesses and properties here and employs a number of people here and makes alot of money her, and since he donated money to the labour party was rewarded with a peerage.
Conspirator maybe you can investiagte further?

I did once investigate Easyjet as I couldn't explain how on earth the company made money on flights cheaper per mile than coach travel and I came to some interesting findings.

There was an overproduction of Boeing jets which traditionally had to be bought either with a large deposit or long term loan. As the flight of each one was quite high to enter the airplane market you needed big bucks and it was a big risk.

Stelios who through his father who is a ship owner was involved in an italian court case for the murder of a crew of a ship and as usual got off with a Lloyds of London insurance payment. He started off with £5 million and managed through his father to sign leasing agreements on new Boeing aircraft which would have just stayed in the hanger.

By offering no service on the airplanes ie food etc. and cutting down on crew only two airstewardesses and two flight pilots he had half the overheads of BA. Alongside lower wages and less pension rights, the purpose of the gamble was to break up BA, through market share, which they did successfully.

Stelios father is well known in the Cypriot community as being involved in drug shipments, the variety of which made Air America a star during the final years of the Vietnam war. Its always a winning strategy to a wealthy future, paying no taxes.

Neither Murdoch or Richard Branson pay hardly any taxes in the UK. If you say you are investing in a new business they give you tax free holidays the likes of which make the tax free export processing zones in the third world seem high cost!!

[karlos]

I knew about when he bought a second hand tanker the Troodos Haven which was hit by an exocet during the iran - iraq war and then sold for scrap. His father repaired the ship and then used it to carry crude oil in the meditteranean. It sprang a leek off the coast of Genoa and they started welding the leak to repair the ship but it caught fire and several people were killed. In addition the coast of Italy and the south of france was hit by an oil slick and in history this was the worst ever maritime pollution disaster EVER.
The Haji-Ioannou was charged with manslaughter and bribery and corruption.
He was aquited after a seven year trial and three appeals. After presumably bribing someone. Yet how on earth was this guy given an aviation license? With his safety record

[scubadiver]

The Bank of England was set up by the private banks to lend money to George III for his war effort. Most of our national debt comes originally from this loan. Like the Federal Reserve, "England" was used to provide the smokescreen that the BoE was controlled by the Government.

The bank prints the money at print price and then lend it to the Government with an interest of between 24-36%.

According to Alexander Niles, a quarter of our own personal income tax goes into the coffers of the Banks because the Government have to pay interest.

Is it any wonder why our public services are such a shambles when Mr Brown is continaully raising taxes?? It does make sense if there is a history of private bankers taking control of the money supply.

[karlos]

It is a scandal. What does bank of england independance mean?

[John White]

It is a scandal. What does bank of england independance mean?

It means: "F*ck you buddy"

The only money is what we believe exists

So you would have preferred them to have let the economy slip into recession?

Sure Pixels, why not? the economy is only a fantasy afterall. The only "real" money that exists with a mortgage ("dead weight") is the borrowers own stumped up as a deposit: the rest is money created out of thin air, and usually not even printed, by the bank in exchange to the only true property that exisits:the cream of a persons own labours, breaths and heartbeats over the length of the loan: real work done with real energy

but I very much doubt you are able to widen your mind enough to grasp that Pixels, so by all means, continue slaving

And this doesn't look like a planned monetary attack on the consumer, if they didn't have much of a choice.

What better weapon of war than one the "enemy" (slave units) is not even capable of percieving, or of understanding they have been attacked

[wepmob2000]

Did not Gordon Brown come up with the clever idea that you could buy just half a home with the gov or a bank owning the other half? So even when you pay off yer mortgage (fat chance) you only own half? Brilliant!

I'm out of here ASAP. US and UK and parts of EU not formerly SU set up for a fall IMO. My advice? Salvage what you can, put it into tangibles and get situated in a self-sufficient country with low overheads. And broadband

Its hard to disagree with any of the sentiments here (except John Doh's), the best thing may be to get out while the going's good. Friends of mine who have emigrated, including one who went to the USA, have never had any cause to regret their move. They all attest to a better and cheaper standard of living, and much less hate and crime filled societies.

Its really no surprise to find the Bank of England is manipulating the UK's 'economic growth', look carefully and theres no substance behind this growth, its largely reliant on reselling goods from the far east and booming house prices. The myth of low inflation is exactly that, the RPI basket is far from extensive when it comes to measuring real expenses. The UK economy reminds me of those internet start up companies in the 1990's, their value being derived from an image and an idea, and nothing more. Look what happened to those when people realised they were not actually doing or producing anything?

[StopThe9/11CoverUp]

I just wanted to say I agree that sometimes people spend above their means, but what about me who needed a £5000 loan from my TSB bank? I got the loan and after 18 months of paying £271 per month TSB phoned me and said they needed me to come in and speak with them, I did this and they told me my loan had been set up with an incorrect interest rate, I asked what this meant and they told me for the 18 months of paying £271.00 (total £4878) I hadnt paid off ANY of my loan I had just been paying the interest off!!!

So they offered me a loan, I asked for one that would clear my £5000 loan and they said they could only offer me £15,000!!!!!

I had to take this as the interest rate on my earlier loan would continue to be paid for at least another 12 months before my loan started to come down, meaning almost £7000 in repayments with the £5000 still to pay.

So as not to lose the "extra" interest they had got away with they would only offer me a 15,000 loan to help. which ultimately has not.

So what about me then? what is your opinion of me? me who got a loan which was needed, paid for what i got it for then got screwed by the bank?

And the same thing has started to happen with the new loan, payments of £150 per month knock only £79 off my loan with the rest in interest?

We worked out that with current payment the total payable could exceed £30,000!!!!!

So please dont say I spend beyond my means, I got stitched up by the bank and have been paying for it ever since.

[wepmob2000]

Jesus, I've heard some bad stories about Loyds/TSB, but thats simply appalling. I'm no expert, but you may have some seriously strong grounds there for a complaint to the banking ombudsman, their treatment of you sounds unlawful (and if it isn't it should be).

[karlos]

complaint to the banking ombudsman can get your account closed and can get you a bad credit rating.
Better pay it off altogether and move it to Nationwide of someone else. Halifax is good too.
Barclays and LLoyds tsb are worst for interest rates arangment fees and othe charges.

[karlos]

So you would have preferred them to have let the economy slip into recession?

WE ARE IN RECESSION
wake up mate, look at any high street at all the shops to let, look at any job centre,
Te only reason people have not felt the pain is because of credit cards and remortgaging.
Trust me we are in a recession.

[John White]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 79&q=money

Money as Debt: a basic primer on how banking really works