Wed21Nov - TALKSPORT - George Monbiot vs. David Ray Griffin

uselesseater · Post by **uselesseater** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:49 pm

It appears that George Monbiot has agreed to take on David Ray Griffin on in a debate on talksport on november 21st. Tim Sparke will also be involved.

I don't think you could have two people further apart on the logical integrity scale so this should be very interesting. A man who studies the science of logic against one who's speciality is the negation of logic via appeals to authority, ridicule and emotion.

I personaly, don't hold Mr Monbiot in very high regard due to his fallitious, emotive style and adolescent arrogance towards ledgends such as David Bellamy so I will be listening with interest.

GazeboflossUK · Post by **GazeboflossUK** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:19 pm

Yes, I've been looking forward to this.

It's either going to be very civilised or Monbiot is going to bring out his arrogance and show very little knowledge on the subject matter - which might not fire Griffin into anger but it certainly will not be good for my heart.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:15 pm

Does anyone know what Talk Sport radio programme Monbiot & Griffin are on? Is it the James Whale Show? or is Monbiot standing in for a Presenter? Whale said the other night that Dylan Avery was going to be on his show on Wednesday 21th, could it be that the Monbiot Vrs Griffin Play off is on the mourning of the 21th?

Whats your source of info?

Both could be working for the New World Order

You know, controling the opposition.

Lenin, the first Communist dictator after the takeover of Russia in 1917, is widely credited with the following quotation, "The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves."

uselesseater · Post by **uselesseater** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:11 pm

There is some confusion over the time and date of the broadcast. My source is someone I know from norwich, i'll check back with them.

I do have a strange feeling about Griffin, simply because he beleives in a form of World Democracy and has written some forwards to the books of CFR members. But, you can't really beat him for getting the 911 message over.

mercury · Post by **mercury** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:14 pm

Hi everybody

The debate between David and George will be the first half of the show, then Dylan Avery and Tim Sparke will answer calls for the second half.

James Whale 10,00 PM Wednesday 21st after England V's Croatia....

if you can't come to the premiere on Saturday 24th or Sunday25th at the ritzy Brixton, www.picturehouses.co.uk for tickets.... watch the film online at www.joiningthedots.tv

Best

Mercury

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:42 pm

mercury wrote:Hi everybody

The debate between David and George will be the first half of the show, then Dylan Avery and Tim Sparke will answer calls for the second half.

James Whale 10,00 PM Wednesday 21st after England V's Croatia....

if you can't come to the premiere on Saturday 24th or Sunday25th at the ritzy Brixton, www.picturehouses.co.uk for tickets.... watch the film online at www.joiningthedots.tv

Best

Mercury

James Whale 10,00 PM Wednesday 21st after England V's Croatia....

If the football is on then it's more likely that Whale will start at 11PM Which isnt enough time for 4 guests to get there pionts across IMO

Post by **TonyGosling** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:16 pm

Reminder -
This is starting in 45 minutes
22:00 - 23:59 The James Whale Show

Join James Whale each weeknight Monday to Thursday for a round up of the day’s top news stories, the best celebrity guests and an insight into the world of the weird. James is a man who isn’t afraid to put the people making the news through their paces and each guest gets the same Whale treatment. No matter how rich and important the guests think they are, no subject is taboo.

http://www2.talksport.net/

http://www2.talksport.net/

Post by **TonyGosling** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:25 pm

Does anyone know if this is going to be on or not?

No mention by James Whale on the show as yet

Post by **TonyGosling** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:37 pm

What's happening?

uselesseater wrote:There is some confusion over the time and date of the broadcast. My source is someone I know from norwich, i'll check back with them.

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:09 pm

It's tomorrow night from 11pm

uselesseater · Post by **uselesseater** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:23 pm

Thanks dh.

I'll keep glued to the radio just in case it's earlier as I heard 10pm was the time. Who knows, it's on tomorrow though.

Good luck Lord Monbiot

Post by **TonyGosling** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:41 pm

You mean today is Tuesday????
Slap my forehead!

dh wrote:It's tomorrow night from 11pm

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:48 pm

It's Wednesday from 11. Swear to god as I often do. Recently heard it on tonight's show. Listen from 10 if you wanna make sure

scubadiver · Post by **scubadiver** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:14 am

Can someone record an MP3?

acrobat74 · Post by **acrobat74** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:19 am

uselesseater wrote:I do have a strange feeling about Griffin, simply because he beleives in a form of World Democracy and has written some forwards to the books of CFR members. But, you can't really beat him for getting the 911 message over.

Well the whole deal, and the world at large, is obviously not so black and white as, 'ah a CFR member wrote the intro to his book, so he's a bad guy'.

Richard Falk can hardly be described as evil.

Most folks in these clubs don't have a clue about the inner workings of a core ring of sickos; it must be only a core ring that discusses evil agendas, while at the same time it keeps an eye open for sympathizers and bright folks.

And a benevolent world democracy driven by noble human ideals such as compassion, respect & liberty wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I don't think our species is ready for that though.

Monbiot is up for a serious ass-kicking.

xmasdale · Post by **xmasdale** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:52 am

On march 9th this year I posted the following article by David Ray Griffin about George Monbiot on this forum. Nobody commented. Perhaps they missed it.

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewt ... ht=monbiot

Morons and Magic: A Reply to George Monbiot
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e17256.htm
David Ray Griffin
ICH
Thursday, March 8, 2007

In 'bayoneting a Scarecrow The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a coward¹s
cult.' (Guardian, February 20), George Monbiot accuses members of the 9/11 truth movement of being 'morons' and 'idiots' who believe in 'magic.'
Having in his previous attack---'A 9/11 conspiracy virus is sweeping the world,' Guardian, February 6---called me this movement's 'high priest,' he now describes my 9/11 writing as a 'concatenation of ill-attested nonsense.'

03/07/07 "ICH " -- - If my books are moronic nonsense, then people who have endorsed them must be morons. Would Monbiot really wish to apply this label to Michel Chossudovsky, Richard Falk, Ray McGovern, Michael Meacher, John McMurtry, Marcus Raskin, Rosemary Ruether, Howard Zinn, and the late Rev. William Sloane Coffin, who, after a stint in the CIA, became one of America¹s leading civil rights, anti-war, and anti-nuclear activists?

If anyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job is by definition an
idiot, then Moncbiot would have to sling that label at Colonel Robert
Bowman, former head of the U.S. ³Star Wars² program; Andreas von Bülow, former State Secretary in the German Federal Ministry of Defense; former CIA analysts Bill Christison and Robert David Steele; former Scientific American columnist A. K. Dewdney; General Leonid Ivashov, former chief of staff of the Russian armed forces; Colonel Ronald D. Ray, former U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense; all the members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, Veterans for 9/11 Truth, and Pilots for 9/11 Truth; and most of the individuals listed under ³Professors Question 9/11² on the ³Patriots Question 9/11² website.

One of the reasons these people reject the government¹s conspiracy theory is that, if they were to accept the official account of the destruction of the World Trade Centre, they would need to affirm magical beliefs. A few examples:

The Twin Towers came straight down, which means that each building¹s 287 steel columns all had to fail simultaneously; to believe this could happen
without explosives is to believe in magic.

At the onset of each tower¹s collapse, steel beams were ejected out as far
as 600 feet; to believe that these horizontal ejections could be explained
by gravitational energy, which is vertical, is to believe in magic.

Virtually all of the concrete in the towers was pulverized into extremely
fine dust particles; to believe that fire plus gravity could have done this
is to believe in magic.

WTC 7 and the towers came down at virtually free-fall speed, meaning that
the lower floors, with all their steel and concrete, provided no resistance
to the upper floors; to believe this could happen without explosives is to
believe in magic.

Pools of molten metal were found under each building. Because steel does
not begin to melt until it reaches about 1,540°C and yet the fires could not
have gotten over 1000°C, to accept the fire theory is to believe in magic.

Monbiot, regarding the 9/11 truth movement¹s conspiracy theory as a
wrong-headed distraction, fails to see that the obviously false and truly
distracting conspiracy theory is the official 9/11 myth, which has been
used to justify imperial wars and increased militarism, thereby distracting
attention from global apartheid and the ecological crisis. We focus on the
9/11 myth because, until it is exposed, getting our governments to focus
wholeheartedly on the truly urgent issues of our time will be impossible.

David Ray Griffin has published over 30 books, including four about 9/11.
His next book, Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory, will be out in April.

"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who
refuse to believe that their government and their media will routinely lie
to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society
that chooses and deserves the Police State Dictatorship it's going to get."
-- Ian Williams Goddard

xmasdale · Post by **xmasdale** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:06 am

Then there was this thread about Monbiot:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewt ... ht=monbiot

Note particularly what Monbiot wrote in the Guardian in 2001:

"There are plenty of reasons to be sceptical. The magical appearance of the terrorists' luggage, passports and flight manual looks rather too good to be true. The dossier of "evidence" purporting to establish Bin Laden's guilt consists largely of supposition and conjecture. The ration packs being dropped on Afghanistan have no conceivable purpose other than to create the false impression that starving people are being fed. Even the anthrax scare looks suspiciously convenient. Just as the hawks in Washington were losing the public argument about extending the war to other countries, journalists start receiving envelopes full of bacteria, which might as well have been labelled "a gift from Iraq". This could indeed be the work of terrorists, who may have their own reasons for widening the conflict, but there are plenty of other ruthless operators who would benefit from a shift in public opinion.

"Democracy is sustained not by public trust but by public scepticism. Unless we are prepared to question, to expose, to challenge and to dissent, we conspire in the demise of the system for which our governments are supposed to be fighting. The true defenders of America are those who are now being told that they are anti-American."

That was part of a longer article to be found here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Co ... 09,00.html

scubadiver · Post by **scubadiver** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:36 am

acrobat74 wrote:
uselesseater wrote:I do have a strange feeling about Griffin, simply because he beleives in a form of World Democracy and has written some forwards to the books of CFR members. But, you can't really beat him for getting the 911 message over.
Well the whole deal, and the world at large, is obviously not so black and white as, 'ah a CFR member wrote the intro to his book, so he's a bad guy'.

Richard Falk can hardly be described as evil.

Most folks in these clubs don't have a clue about the inner workings of a core ring of sickos; it must be only a core ring that discusses evil agendas, while at the same time it keeps an eye open for sympathizers and bright folks.

And a benevolent world democracy driven by noble human ideals such as compassion, respect & liberty wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I don't think our species is ready for that though.

Monbiot is up for a serious ass-kicking.

In one of his books he did say he would like something along the lines of a world democracy. He is certainly against a totalitarian world government otherwise he wouldn't be publishing all these books.

redkop · Post by **redkop** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:38 am

mods please move or delete as required i couldnt see if this had been posted already.

xmasdale · Post by **xmasdale** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:16 pm

scubadiver wrote:
acrobat74 wrote:
uselesseater wrote:I do have a strange feeling about Griffin, simply because he beleives in a form of World Democracy and has written some forwards to the books of CFR members. But, you can't really beat him for getting the 911 message over.

And a benevolent world democracy driven by noble human ideals such as compassion, respect & liberty wouldn't be such a bad idea.
I don't think our species is ready for that though.

Monbiot is up for a serious ass-kicking.
In one of his books he did say he would like something along the lines of a world democracy. He is certainly against a totalitarian world government otherwise he wouldn't be publishing all these books.

The movement for global democracy, also known as the World Federalist Movement, was started at the time of the foundation of the United Nations by people who believed that the UN as it was set up put too much power into the hands into the major nations and in any case, despite its charter which begins "We the people..." does not represent the people of the world at all, but represents governments, most of whom are not even democratically elected.

The choice which humanity now faces is on the one hand between the current system of an unseen world government operating in the background and pulling the strings to create war for profit and to minimise people's freedom and minimise the accountability of the national governments which exist, and on the other hand to set up fully accountable and democratic systems at each level of governance: global, continental, national, provincial and local. The fact that we do not have such institutions is a democratic deficit.

Yet people keep shouting "World Government = bad. National government = good" The current system of unseen, unaccountable world government certainly is. In the modern global village, which is ruled by sinister unaccountable powerful people and institutions, we need systems to make false flag terrorism impossible, to make bullying by superpowers and to make war impossible, but without the global institutions of government being fully accountable to the people we will not achieve that.

What I fear is that we will merely expose 9/11 and people will say "That was all the fault of George Bush and those wicked Neocons." Then we will go back to sleep and carry on in the same old way unaware that we are being manipulated by powerful unaccountable people in the shadows.

So the issue is not so much one of whether we should have world government or not as much as whether the inevitable world government, which we already have, can be made truly representative of and accountable to the people.

George Orwell's "Four legs good = two legs bad", as the sheep in Animal Farm bleated, is an excellent parody of oversimplified sloganising.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:21 pm

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewt ... 9061#99061

Justin · Post by **Justin** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:23 pm

Spot on Noel - I for one am hoping that one day we will have a world made up of small countries, regions, cantons, communities etc living in total spiritual peace with one another, shielded by the umbrella of genuinely accountable and transparent international law and governance. As we wake up spiritually to our true potential and who we really are (infinite love/consciousness), those in the shadows, who have dark agendas to keep us entrapped within the Matrix, will find their power and influence slipping away at an ever increasing rate. They cannot win and we cannot lose!

There are many good people, and I include DRG here, who have extremely worthy ideals and who have been completely taken in by the rhetoric and promise of the NWO's shopwindow and who have no idea at all of what is really going on behind the scenes within the inner sanctums of this network of elitist and highly secretive organisations where the real sinister agendas are discussed and executed. I know, because back in 1981 I was nearly recruited personally by the late Aurelio Peccei (boss of Fiat and Co-founder of the Club of Rome) to work as a researcher for the Club of Rome - I believed fully that this was a far sighted organisation that was committed to looking after the world's environment and the poorest people in developing countries. Little did I know about their real and hidden support for Malthusian policies for dealing with 'useless eaters'. Most of us are naturally trusting people who want to do what is right. In other words our worst crime is to be naive.

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:28 pm

I'm still not sure that Monbiot and Griffin are gonna be on tonight Whale has said nothing about this?

Plus, I wonder if Thermite, Molten Metal, and real Planes are on the menu tonight?

Post by **TonyGosling** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:04 pm

please use the search in future
it's here
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/search.php

redkop wrote:mods please move or delete as required i couldnt see if this had been posted already.

gareth · Post by **gareth** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:10 pm

Where is it? It's not on.

Is it a wind-up? Monbiot and Griffin?

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:12 pm

It's not on? Great. I was hoping that would cheer my up after the football. I can't even get the page to load, too many truthers trying to get in at once.

gareth · Post by **gareth** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:15 pm

It's football until 1am on Talksport

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:23 pm

At least England screwed up which means we wont have to suffer more of this insufferable nonsense from this Euro angle. A small mercy.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:26 pm

Football - the opiate of the masses.......

Post by **TonyGosling** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:26 pm

yup

Extremely heavy loading on both the talksport webservers

http://www1.talksport.net and
http://www2.talksport.net

But no sign of Monbiot or Griffin

The most suppressed debate of the 21st century has been suppressed again - no wonder James Whale was going on and on about censorship with almost Alex Jones like fury last night.

Does anyone know anything about what has occurred here??

Most likely excuse is the great 'tragedy' of England being knocked out of whatever the stupid footie tornament is.

9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom

Wed21Nov - TALKSPORT - George Monbiot vs. David Ray Griffin

Wed21Nov - TALKSPORT - George Monbiot vs. David Ray Griffin

Loose Change Final Cut Debate David Griffin v George Monbiot

Re: Loose Change Final Cut Debate David Griffin v George Mon

D.Avery on James Whale tonight 21/11/2007

Re: D.Avery on James Whale tonight 21/11/2007