9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:11 pm

9/11 SKEPTICS' LUNATIC FRINGE
By ANDREA PEYSER

July 16, 2007 -- THIS time, they've gone too far. A group of 9/11 conspiracy theorists - whackos who deny that jumbo jets brought down the World Trade Center - is on the attack. But their latest target isn't the government, which they claim destroyed the buildings with explosives.

They're using a vicious Internet assault to pick on an elderly widow.

"They're dirty sons of b******! They are not real men," feisty Ellen Mariani, 69, told me. Ellen lost her husband aboard United 175 on Sept. 11, 2001.

"They have no respect for women, no respect for the dead and no respect for little children who now have been orphaned."

Ellen is the subject of a blistering battering on the Web site of an outfit that calls itself "9/11 Researchers." While conspiracy theories are nothing new - Rosie O'Donnell gave voice on "The View" to the belief the government was involved �- these bozos blast fellow conspiracy groups for not going far enough.

On their Web site, Ellen's current, private home address is listed for every whack job to see. There also is "evidence" that her husband helped plan the attacks.

How could a retired, 58-year-old deliveryman help plan the destruction of the Twin Towers? The proof, presented as a kind of "gotcha!" smoking gun, is strikingly shallow.

Linked to the Web site is a copy of a deed transferring her husband's real property to Ellen. He took it out on July 26, 2001, 47 days before the trade center was destroyed.

As further "proof" that Louis Mariani - who went by his middle name, Neil - was involved, the Web site posts the lease transferring management rights of the World Trade Center to Larry Silverstein. The lease was taken out two days before Louis Mariani put his property in Ellen's name. Aha!

Confused? So am I.

The Web site is the work of a Rick Siegel, who hawks DVDs that purport to prove the trade center's destruction was an inside job. He is partners with Nico Haupt, who is known for sending blistering e-mail rants to trade-center survivors.

My attempts to reach both men were fruitless.

The odd thing is that the loonies are picking on Ellen. She has been outspoken in insisting that the government knows more about the attacks than it is admitting. But a source familiar with the groups says they tend to target people who fall short of their extreme anti-Semitic, anti-everything views.

On Sept. 11, 2001, Neil, Ellen's husband of 13 years, boarded United 175 from Boston, bound for the wedding of Ellen's daughter. Ellen was flying separately because she had booked her flight months before, and it was full.

She's refused to take a dime from the fund that compensates victims.

"Could you go to sleep at night, knowing you took money for your husband's death?" she asks.

"Try to eat alone. Try to watch programs you both liked on TV without feeling guilty. Try to go to sleep at night while you don't have your honey with you. This is the hell I go through every day.

"I don't need evil people attacking me."

It's gone far enough.

andrea.peyser@nypost.com

http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/pri ... peyser.htm

gruts · Post by **gruts** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:59 pm

what do you expect from people who compare the loose change crew, steven jones and william rodriguez with nazis on trial at nuremburg, set it to music and throw paris hilton into the mix....

http://www.vidiac.com/video/70b12c1b-33 ... 2fb63f.htm

....all very amusing (or maybe sad), but is this really helping us to find out the truth about 9/11? I think not....

sidlittle · Post by **sidlittle** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:08 pm

gruts wrote:what do you expect from people who compare the loose change crew, steven jones and william rodriguez with nazis on trial at nuremburg, set it to music and throw paris hilton into the mix....

http://www.vidiac.com/video/70b12c1b-33 ... 2fb63f.htm

....all very amusing (or maybe sad), but is this really helping us to find out the truth about 9/11? I think not....

Oh i see, because it concerns the 911 researchers website, I suppose this is an example of fair and balanced reporting and is not a hit piece in the slightest ?

Where is your disgust at the 'loony' language used by the NYpost, the blatant implied associations with antisemitism?

John White · Post by **John White** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:23 pm

Come on Sid, wake up. Theres no smear in the body of this articles complaint as its all self-evidently based on facts! The behaviour out of researchers has been and continues to be a disgrace: get some perspective!

As for the associations the reporter is making between Researchers and hate speech, if that community wasn't behaving in such an aggresive and deranged fashion, that could be challenged: but as it is, an objective reader is going to call it fair comment!

9/11 Researchers: A disgrace to 9/11 truth and its own worst enemy!

This is NOT a comment on NPT and BW theory, flawed as they clearly are, but is entirely a comment about the common standards of behaviour Researchers is failing badly to meet

TmcMistress · Post by **TmcMistress** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:36 am

I agree totally. This sort of behavior is completely abhorrent.

gruts · Post by **gruts** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:56 am

sidlittle wrote:
gruts wrote:what do you expect from people who compare the loose change crew, steven jones and william rodriguez with nazis on trial at nuremburg, set it to music and throw paris hilton into the mix....

http://www.vidiac.com/video/70b12c1b-33 ... 2fb63f.htm

....all very amusing (or maybe sad), but is this really helping us to find out the truth about 9/11? I think not....
Oh i see, because it concerns the 911 researchers website, I suppose this is an example of fair and balanced reporting and is not a hit piece in the slightest ?

Where is your disgust at the 'loony' language used by the NYpost, the blatant implied associations with antisemitism?

oh I see, because it concerns your NPT gurus you have to defend them no matter what they do? pathetic sid, really pathetic....

I'm quite capable of recognising tabloid journalism when I see it - but sometimes you get what you deserve.

and if this little "hit piece" bothers you so much then what do you think about the fact that the "911 researchers" website is the source of a constant stream of vilification, abuse and harassment directed at prominent members of the 9/11 truth movement? in fact I've seen hit piece after hit piece after hit piece on there written by Rick Siegal and his NPT minions about John Albanese, Steven Jones, William Rodriguez, the Loose Change guys and other members of the truth movement - which make the comments in the NY Post article seem very tame indeed. but that complete lack of fair and balanced reporting doesn't seem to bother you does it?

and I agree that trying to associate 9/11 truth with antisemitism is out of order - so I was a little shocked when I posted an article by Jim Hoffman on this forum the other day in which he has the temerity to make some very valid criticisms of rick sigel's film "911 eyewitness" - and rick responded to the article with a series of vicious ad hominem attacks on Hoffman which included baseless accusations that he is an antisemite who runs a "Jew Baiting" website.

and funnily enough I didn't notice sid "disgusted of A13" little rushing back here to condemn him for it. so it looks like you have one rule for your heroes at "911 researchers" and another rule for everybody else. and what's that phenomenon commonly known as? double standards? Hypocrisy?

and are you really defending the blog entry on the "911 researchers" website that led to the article - which implied that Ellen Mariani's husband was only allegedly dead, and that there was in any case something deeply suspicious about the fact that he'd signed his property over to her a few weeks before he "died" on 9/11 and also tried to somehow link this with Larry Silverstein's takeover of the WTC, as well as publishing Ellen's full address and email? even one of your pals at the NPT sockpuppet forum is upset about this:

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php? ... ic=403&hl=

and did you watch the video I linked to - proudly displayed on the "911 researchers" website - which streams images of the loose change crew, steven jones, william rodriguez and others over audio of the trial of nazi war criminals at nuremburg? of course - there's nothing disgusting about that is there?

it's funny what gets your knickers in a twist and what doesn't - isn't it sid?

btw - have you worked out the difference between "east" and "north" yet?

John White · Post by **John White** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:07 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Any genuine truthseekers that support the NPT BW hypothesis need to seriously consider whether 9/11 researchers is being deliberately run to discredit the theory! Becuase thats most certainly what its managed to acheive

And there are most certainly precedents within the UFO feild!

zoomer · Post by **zoomer** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:57 pm

John White wrote:Come on Sid, wake up. Theres no smear in the body of this articles complaint as its all self-evidently based on facts! The behaviour out of researchers has been and continues to be a disgrace: get some perspective!

As for the associations the reporter is making between Researchers and hate speech, if that community wasn't behaving in such an aggresive and deranged fashion, that could be challenged: but as it is, an objective reader is going to call it fair comment!

9/11 Researchers: A disgrace to 9/11 truth and its own worst enemy!

This is NOT a comment on NPT and BW theory, flawed as they clearly are, but is entirely a comment about the common standards of behaviour Researchers is failing badly to meet

ERRR it is the NEW YORK POST...? already? A nonsense tabloid?

John White · Post by **John White** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:14 pm

zoomer wrote:
John White wrote:Come on Sid, wake up. Theres no smear in the body of this articles complaint as its all self-evidently based on facts! The behaviour out of researchers has been and continues to be a disgrace: get some perspective!

As for the associations the reporter is making between Researchers and hate speech, if that community wasn't behaving in such an aggresive and deranged fashion, that could be challenged: but as it is, an objective reader is going to call it fair comment!

9/11 Researchers: A disgrace to 9/11 truth and its own worst enemy!

This is NOT a comment on NPT and BW theory, flawed as they clearly are, but is entirely a comment about the common standards of behaviour Researchers is failing badly to meet
ERRR it is the NEW YORK POST...? already? A nonsense tabloid?

Last I saw, the New York Post doesn't smear columists in the Washington Post as baby killers, Nazi's and members of Al-Queda, which is analagous for the behaviour of the "leaders" in the "researchers" community towards the rest of 9/11 Truth

Now NPT supporters can deny this as much as they like, but it is going to come back and bite them on the arse and make the job of responsible Truthseekers more difficult

zoomer · Post by **zoomer** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:07 pm

gruts wrote:what do you expect from people who compare the loose change crew, steven jones and william rodriguez with nazis on trial at nuremburg, set it to music and throw paris hilton into the mix....

http://www.vidiac.com/video/70b12c1b-33 ... 2fb63f.htm

....all very amusing (or maybe sad), but is this really helping us to find out the truth about 9/11? I think not....

Nico is an artist. An artist maybe has a differnt way of communication from your self. A real artist tries to point out and shake up.

So let me try and give MY interpretation of what he is doing there.

He is saying that we are so * UP. in every which way, by lies and corruption all overlayed by the omnipresent mass hypnotizing media, that we are all immersed in a surreal matrix----a rabbit hole

You lot. You 'truthies' will only go so far, and then cover your eyes. You believe corruption only goes so far. But it doesn't. It is all -pervasive...and it takes a going 'crazy' to really see what is happening

Now I KNOW you will take piss out of MY INTERPRETATION (I am NOT saying Nico means it this way), but that is part of the surreal tragi comedy as well

Killtown · Post by **Killtown** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:25 pm

Nico and Rick didn't do anything wrong. It is guilt by association. The only "partnering" Nico has with the site is that he *was* an admin there.

Only ONE poster at 911r, "Amanda", posted Mrs. Mariani's publicly found address (never her phone number) and "Amanda" was the only person from 911r to call her.

This article is the typical trash that the NY Post puts out.

John White · Post by **John White** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:50 pm

Killtown wrote:Nico and Rick didn't do anything wrong. It is guilt by association. The only "partnering" Nico has with the site is that he *was* an admin there.

Only ONE poster at 911r, "Amanda", posted Mrs. Mariani's publicly found address (never her phone number) and "Amanda" was the only person from 911r to call her.

This article is the typical trash that the NY Post puts out.

One person posted it: thats all it takes: how many quoted it?

And how many derided Mrs Mariani publically on the site? None at all?
If you can't answer "yes, no one else" then your "defense" case is spin worthy of Tony Blair

Besides which, are either yourself, Rick Seigal, Nico Haupt, Fred, or any other prominent community members retracting the allegations against her husband?

Do you know what credibility is btw?

kc · Post by kc » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:32 pm

Only ONE poster at 911r, "Amanda", posted Mrs. Mariani's publicly found address (never her phone number) and "Amanda" was the only person from 911r to call her

So can I assume that as soon as you realised this person was hounding a widowed pensioner, you immediately demmanded her posts be deleted and herseolf chastised?

The hottest places in hell are reserved for men who, in time of moral crisis, do nothing

Killtown · Post by **Killtown** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:35 pm

kc wrote:
Only ONE poster at 911r, "Amanda", posted Mrs. Mariani's publicly found address (never her phone number) and "Amanda" was the only person from 911r to call her
So can I assume that as soon as you realised this person was hounding a widowed pensioner, you immediately demmanded her posts be deleted and herseolf chastised?

I wouldn't assume that.

Andrew Johnson · Post by **Andrew Johnson** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:03 pm

This was in the NY Post?

Wow! This is amazing! The "No Plane" evidence must be being taken seriously by more and more people then. Hmm. I wonder why that is...

The problem is the discussion of evidence is always clouded by accusation, smearing and counter-accusation. So it's best to steer clear of that and work as an individual - that's my experience.

gruts · Post by **gruts** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:56 pm

Andrew Johnson wrote:This was in the NY Post?

Wow! This is amazing! The "No Plane" evidence must be being taken seriously by more and more people then. Hmm. I wonder why that is...

absolutely - being referred to as the "9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe" is a sure sign that you're being taken seriously....

sidlittle · Post by **sidlittle** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:54 pm

gruts wrote:
sidlittle wrote:
gruts wrote:what do you expect from people who compare the loose change crew, steven jones and william rodriguez with nazis on trial at nuremburg, set it to music and throw paris hilton into the mix....

http://www.vidiac.com/video/70b12c1b-33 ... 2fb63f.htm

....all very amusing (or maybe sad), but is this really helping us to find out the truth about 9/11? I think not....
Oh i see, because it concerns the 911 researchers website, I suppose this is an example of fair and balanced reporting and is not a hit piece in the slightest ?

Where is your disgust at the 'loony' language used by the NYpost, the blatant implied associations with antisemitism?
oh I see, because it concerns your NPT gurus you have to defend them no matter what they do? pathetic sid, really pathetic....

I'm quite capable of recognising tabloid journalism when I see it - but sometimes you get what you deserve.

and if this little "hit piece" bothers you so much then what do you think about the fact that the "911 researchers" website is the source of a constant stream of vilification, abuse and harassment directed at prominent members of the 9/11 truth movement? in fact I've seen hit piece after hit piece after hit piece on there written by Rick Siegal and his NPT minions about John Albanese, Steven Jones, William Rodriguez, the Loose Change guys and other members of the truth movement - which make the comments in the NY Post article seem very tame indeed. but that complete lack of fair and balanced reporting doesn't seem to bother you does it?

and I agree that trying to associate 9/11 truth with antisemitism is out of order - so I was a little shocked when I posted an article by Jim Hoffman on this forum the other day in which he has the temerity to make some very valid criticisms of rick sigel's film "911 eyewitness" - and rick responded to the article with a series of vicious ad hominem attacks on Hoffman which included baseless accusations that he is an antisemite who runs a "Jew Baiting" website.

and funnily enough I didn't notice sid "disgusted of A13" little rushing back here to condemn him for it. so it looks like you have one rule for your heroes at "911 researchers" and another rule for everybody else. and what's that phenomenon commonly known as? double standards? Hypocrisy?

and are you really defending the blog entry on the "911 researchers" website that led to the article - which implied that Ellen Mariani's husband was only allegedly dead, and that there was in any case something deeply suspicious about the fact that he'd signed his property over to her a few weeks before he "died" on 9/11 and also tried to somehow link this with Larry Silverstein's takeover of the WTC, as well as publishing Ellen's full address and email? even one of your pals at the NPT sockpuppet forum is upset about this:

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php? ... ic=403&hl=

and did you watch the video I linked to - proudly displayed on the "911 researchers" website - which streams images of the loose change crew, steven jones, william rodriguez and others over audio of the trial of nazi war criminals at nuremburg? of course - there's nothing disgusting about that is there?

it's funny what gets your knickers in a twist and what doesn't - isn't it sid?

btw - have you worked out the difference between "east" and "north" yet?

Completely foolish gruts. I am not even a member of the 911 researchers site. In fact , I hate it!! There are as many egos as here and there are those in the NPT camp I don't trust as well. For your information, I'm sympathetic with the opinion of Natasha in the link you posted.
So quit trying to marginalize.

Incidentally, by posting that link to Natasha's thread you rather contradict your earlier post here..

gruts wrote:what's that forum all about anyway?

it's the first 9/11 forum I've ever seen where almost everybody is a fully paid up member of the NPT/space beams club - and almost everybody agrees with almost everybody else about almost everything - so nothing is really discussed in any depth because almost every thread is such a mutually-adoring, high-fiving, backslapping love-in....

gruts · Post by **gruts** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:40 pm

not really - after all there's an exception to every rule isn't there? but in any case, that brief moment of disagreement was soon followed by lots of kissing and making up....

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php? ... ic=445&hl=

as you were....

zoomer · Post by **zoomer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:53 pm

gruts wrote:not really - after all there's an exception to every rule isn't there? but in any case, that brief moment of disagreement was soon followed by lots of kissing and making up....

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php? ... ic=445&hl=

as you were....

I see. I see. So, when we disagree with you that's bad, and we get banned, that's bad...? But when we agree with each other, that is bad also?

cause thats what your implying right? Or am I wrong?

gruts · Post by **gruts** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:26 pm

who said it was bad? and do you mean bad as in good or bad as in bad?

zoomer · Post by **zoomer** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:17 pm

gruts wrote:who said it was bad? and do you mean bad as in good or bad as in bad?

I distinctly heard you imply it was bad...!

uselesseater · Post by **uselesseater** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:47 pm

Fringe hehehehehe ROLF etc...

At least 36% of Americans think 9/11 an inside job.

24% or less support Bush and the War so if we are fringe then the Neo-Cons and their supporters must be ultra-radical-fringe-loons!

I think we should make a point of refering to these filthy snakes as fringe lunatics.

9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom

9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe

9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe

Re: 9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe

Re: 9/11 skeptics' lunatic fringe