Are UFOs really from outer space?

[utopiated]

But how do you release all info about UFO's and ET's to the people of the world without them going mad and getting the wrong idea.

It was the Robertson Panel [using War of the Worlds radio show] that gave the governments the excuse not to disclose over panic issues. I think this is sheer bunk now as we pass into the 21st century. We've all been exposed to loads of images and data on off-planet life possibilities - even the Catholic church have been sending one of their top dudes out to say off-planet entities are no threat - simply part of the evolutionary process.

If we announced a UFO had landed on the House of Commons tomorrow, 93% of people would continue to go shopping according to a recent poll.

[Cruise4]

They won't have much choice soon. They WILL be seeing them. The Planets are going nuts and the energy is building. You can ALL reach out and tap in. At times its like the best MDMA you ever tried. Rewrite yourself. Interesting Times indeed.

[rodin]

UFO thread expands @ expense of other 'controversies'. Chalk it up as another win for the tribe.

Everyone has a camera phone. Where is the rash of UFO pics? For goodness sake start thinkng analytically and not wishfully.

[Cruise4]

Energy off the planets is not wishful thinking. Its happening for sure. I know it for a fact. If you let go of rationality and experiment you will find this out for yourself.

Re. UFO's... not time yet. So agree, could be wrong.

I'll qualify that... I don't know that the energy is from the planets. But I suspect it is. We are in one big machine... and its doing something.

[utopiated]

UFO thread expands @ expense of other 'controversies'. Chalk it up as another win for the tribe.

What are you on about - What 'tribe'? Why don't you spend the time you just spent writing that post creating another thread for this topic area instead?

Soon people will end up having to see that none of this is separate to everything else you see going on. In fact it's far more at the core than many suspect.

[telecasterisation]

I do not exist. Since you perceive smell, perhaps it is your own stink that stimulates your olefactory senses.

My 'olefactory' senses? Not sure what you mean?

Is that some sort of manufacturing industry that makes Spanish items?

[marky 54]

at last! PROOF.....! there is no life on earth.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1076 ... 2252gxVosN

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndv ... -v-44.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndv ... -v-69.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndv ... -v-77.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndp ... -p-01.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndp ... -p-22.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndv ... -v-18.html

http://www.phototravels.net/namibia/ndv ... -v-31.html

im not being serious of course, but it does show how easy it is to paint a certain picture, and that even on a planet teaming with life there are areas that look baron and dead, imagine if these were the pictures from a probe from another planet or at least the ones allowed to be shown to the public, would they believe life outside their own planet is impossible? would they think our earth is dead with no life?.

if i was from another planet and i was shown those pictures then told there was no life there i would of believed it before becoming aware of lies sold to us on a grand scale, but now im not so sure if indeed we have been told the truth so i am left to wonder and know there will be no way of knowing for sure that we have been shown ALL pictures from probe missions etc.

but like i said im left to wonder if the same trick as been pulled on us that i just gave an example of were certain planets are concerned.

[telecasterisation]

at last! PROOF.....! there is no life on earth.

Im not being serious of course, but it does show how easy it is to paint a certain picture, and that even on a planet teaming with life there are areas that look baron and dead, imagine if these were the pictures from a probe from ...............there will be no way of knowing for sure that we have been shown ALL pictures from probe missions etc.

but like i said im left to wonder if the same trick as been pulled on us that i just gave an example of were certain planets are concerned.

Whilst I acknowledge the concept of what you suggest, I am unable to quite grasp exactly who would benefit from such blatant deception?

Is this an ecclesiatical stance where religion maintains its control?

This comes back to the ability to 'hide' all the incriminaing evidence - the 'pictures' are being beamed back not taken to a 24 hour Boots photolab. Are we saying the Russians/whoever would be unable to intercept the same transmissions? There would be a considerable number of people who would know - the list would grow daily.

Can you list what you believe would change if proof emerged we are not alone in the universe?

[marky 54]

at last! PROOF.....! there is no life on earth.

Im not being serious of course, but it does show how easy it is to paint a certain picture, and that even on a planet teaming with life there are areas that look baron and dead, imagine if these were the pictures from a probe from ...............there will be no way of knowing for sure that we have been shown ALL pictures from probe missions etc.

but like i said im left to wonder if the same trick as been pulled on us that i just gave an example of were certain planets are concerned.

Whilst I acknowledge the concept of what you suggest, I am unable to quite grasp exactly who would benefit from such blatant deception?

Is this an ecclesiatical stance where religion maintains its control?

This comes back to the ability to 'hide' all the incriminaing evidence - the 'pictures' are being beamed back not taken to a 24 hour Boots photolab. Are we saying the Russians/whoever would be unable to intercept the same transmissions? There would be a considerable number of people who would know - the list would grow daily.

Can you list what you believe would change if proof emerged we are not alone in the universe?

i don't know if my example is the case, i only wonder about it, mainly because of the lies we are told almost on a daily basis, and maybe always have been but less people were aware before compared to now.

also its obvious we are not alone in the universe, just the vast size of space makes it more possible we are not than us being the only ones, so lets narrow it down to our solar system.

religon could play a part if it exposed something to do with our past and origion etc. but that is the only threat to religon if that was the case where aliens are concerned, because if we do not come from other beings then religon is safe, as god created the universe and therefore all life in it, making god the god to all beings/animals not just humans.

technologies could play a part to, if another civilization exsisted with advanced technology and we were introduced so to speak, that technology would become availble, due to sharing knowledge throughout the population rather than with a few.

mass panic could be another reason.

or just total control of the population being threatened by awakenings to the truth.

but i don't know for sure there could be a numerous amount reasons depending on what was found, but without knowing what was found you can't know the reasons, it would be like trying to guess why someone is hiding something when they will not show you what they have in their hand, all races are differant to so even if we are talking about finding life, we still do not know a) what type of life b) what technology they have c) what they are capable of good or bad. (if i held an item in my hand and would not show you it, would you know why im hiding it or what it is?) (what if i showed you what i was hiding and i opened my hand to show you a syringe? you would still not know the exact reason why i would hide it but you can at least start to make a more accurate guess.)

but i do not know if any of that is the case, im simply showing how easy it is to be conned by looking at selective images of earth and imagining im looking from the outside in rather than the inside out, and i control all the information that gets released or shown to the PUBLIC.

others may of seen images for all we know that do show things but they are sworn to secracy. also there have been reports of changes and censoring images before being released to the public.

its all speculation and i don't have a clue, im just demonstrating with the level of lies today, should certain people be so sure of themselves about subjects like life out there or start to take the subject a little more seriously at least without the ridicule, especially if your a believer that the population is controlled by other forces other than goverment or while it is evident goverments have been lieing for decades and continue to do so.

who knows? im just trying to show its not a done deal there is no life out there just because we are told so, we were told there were WMD's etc etc the list is endless and proberbly goes on and on into things we are not even aware about even now.

it may even be a trust thing, which any news organisation or goverment has lost with the majority which just makes me more caustious about what they tell me, and therefore more sceptical and more accepting of the need to investigate for ourselves.

[ukginger]

Unless you have seen a UFO, why follow the issue ?

[telecasterisation]

Unless you have seen a UFO, why follow the issue ?

UFO's are simply ojects in the sky that cannot immediately be given any other obvious earthly label - they aren't automatically from another planet.

Many people confuse 'UFO' with 'alien spacecraft' - they are not one and the same.

[utopiated]

Whilst I acknowledge the concept of what you suggest, I am unable to quite grasp exactly who would benefit from such blatant deception?

All above-government factions currently liaising with rogue ET groups for their own ends.

NASA lies. A lot.

[telecasterisation]

All above-government factions currently liaising with rogue ET groups for their own ends.

NASA lies. A lot.

That was a nasty thing to do, you made me spill my carrot juice.

So as well as governments who plan all kinds of nasty and nefarious plots to better their position, we also have bands of dodgy aliens travelling countless light years to mess with our lives as well?

What exactly makes them 'rogue', are they on the run from the Galactic Federation?

Or perhaps you meant 'rouge' aliens, as in red ones?

[marky 54]

Unless you have seen a UFO, why follow the issue ?

what makes you think i have not?

or was you replying to someone else?

[ishaar]

Are 'they' (TPTB) telling us lies or the truth?

I doubt the words or the concept exists beyond our perception of things, the elite only deal with information and their underlings with the creation and dissemination of mis-information to confuse the masses and hinder our natural progression to higher levels of existence...IMO

If sometimes we are told something and it happens to be true that just means there is no inconvenience to you knowing the truth, and that’s probably quite a rare occurrence.

I usually don't bother contributing to the ET or UFO (2 entirely different areas) threads. I have a feeling that most phenomena of a physical, (in this dimension) nature is probably of terrestrial orientation, and not reverse engineered from the craft of visiting ET's either, I doubt they would need to. We are just starting to get a glimpse of the kind of technologies they have and the energies they exploit so think of that, project it 50 years into the future and what you imagine is probably what now exists in some form or other.

Have / Do ET's come here? Who can say? It's tempting to say yes, especially if you want that to be true, it's also very easy to say yes as there's so much debate and sightings of those disks in the sky and videos, photos. Then there's the massive Hollywood campaign feeding back from and re-enforcing all the encounters and sightings, there's the witness accounts, the abductees and so on. All it takes to create an abductee is a few agents in rubber suites equipped with drugs and mind control techniques.
All I'm saying really is not to underestimate the power of the misinformation agenda, we could be heading for that 'global' false flag event, attack from outer space.

Jeez!! look!! it's a big disc... hovering, must be half a kilometre wide and it's got a green death ray!!! Now that's gotta be from outer space. OOOH look! The New Crisis Management team are here and they gave some of the army time off from murdering farmers and their families to shoot their most advanced weapon, the nuclear missile, but its useless against these green devils...eerrr isn't that fallout dangerous? No of course not, the air is perfectly safe to breath.

Having said that I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to suddenly find out that not only have ETs been here, but one of them was driving the number 73 bus I travelled on earlier today. We aren't separate from .... well anything we are as much 'out there' as we are where we appear to be, but that’s not something you can 'see' with your intellect or grasp with an ego... wish I had the time to put that better.

Rant over

[telecasterisation]

Unless you have seen a UFO, why follow the issue ?

what makes you think i have not?

or was you replying to someone else?

Not seen one? There are occasions when I think you arrived here by one.

[marky 54]

Unless you have seen a UFO, why follow the issue ?

what makes you think i have not?

or was you replying to someone else?

Not seen one? There are occasions when I think you arrived here by one.

lol!

when you see one(if you do) you'd understand why some people take an deeper intrest than most in this subject(or have you? am i presuming you have not?).

all i know even from research is u.f.o's are real, only because i did see one (alien or not), everything else is just like any other subject, you can only work from availble information and treat it with the same sceptism as everything else, even if it might i seem i am not sceptical, i am but try to make people understand the subject is neither ludicrous of impossible and with so many reports and experiances worthy of an open mind.

[Bossgator]

I too am new here in these parts. It's great to see such open and varied discussions. All of you are to be commended for having such a large forum, with so many different views and opinions! Well done.

I have read through this thread, and wow, I had no idea there were so many different types of beliefs in support of extraterrestrials and such. Some seem way out there and nearly kooky, but hey, everyone is entitled. It's been quite the entertaining read.

If I may add a little, my personal view on whether or not theres life beyond earth? I haven't got a clue!!! The day one takes up my parking space with it's vehicle is the day I'll first get pissed for not having a place to park, then I'll quickly remind them, "Hey pal, you ding my door, you buy it!"

But seriously, I just don't know either way. I do know that while there is a mountain of information for and against, I feel that it just might be not too wise for a person to be so adamant they exist or don't exist.

It is my opinion that the jury is still out, WAY out, from making any definative claims one way or the other. I look forward to the undeniable proof though, and actually hope they do for some bored earthling reason.

I really only have a couple things to add here, and mainly they are just personal observations. What has stuckout the most in these type discussions is the tremendous amount of people who are completely convinced, but lack any real solid evidence to back their belief.

Regardless, the aspect that has grabbed my attention is the aspect of space travel. I look at this aspect before I even consider if they even have visited us or not. There were some early comments about space/time and the demands of the laws of physics. This was talked about with the mindset that those laws are proven and without question.

This is quite the narrow minded way of viewing things, and demands an ton of assumption. While it is true that Einsteins work has been really put through academic wringer, the Theory of Relativity is still just that, a theory. many parts seem to have been proven solid and sound, but they are still theory, formulated via mathmatics. These laws of physics seem to be theorically possible and the math may seem to prove it out, but I offer this...

...while we humans have learned a great deal about our existence, it is so completely arrogant to say these laws are the last word! That is not sound scientific reasoning. Case in point, if Einstein's work on Black Holes were solid and irrefutable, then explain how could Stephen Hawkings dare to offer what is know as the Hawking Effect (Hawking Radiation)?

The nerve of him to question our most revered physicist of all time? How? Because they are all mathmatical equations worked out on paper to support a given theory. Theory is not proof, it is an educated suggestion!

Otherwise I suppose that it should rather be called the Law of Relativity. There is a very good reason why they still use the word "theory".

So, my point is this, mankind should not be so quick to think they have the answers, because we simply don't. Infact, the most common argument against long distance space travel is the supposed limitations of the "law" of the speed of light; 186,000 miles per second.

The speed of light theory says all kinds of things, to include the theory that if we were to travel that fast, and it's even claimed we can only get relativly close to it, that there would be all kinds of effects to or by space/time. Oh really? Are we absolutely sure about that? I guess since the mathmatics that we use is without flaw, it must be true, right?

Mathmatics has evolved over the ages, as we have grown in our understanding of it. What we know today, is literally generations beyond what was known even a thousand years ago. There seems to be evidence that mankind knew a lot more about math long ago than what is generally given credit for. The 'ole "lost to the passage of time" thing.

On that premise, surely we cannot say that we have it all figured out today, and have "relearned" everything that may have been lost ages ago? I say hogwash! That's mere human arrogance. This is my personal view, and is completely open to debate, but is still what I think.

I also offer this; the announcment by scientists that claim to have accelerated beyond the speed of light in a vacuum!

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/g ... 00719.html

http://www.electrogravityphysics.com/ht ... light.html

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/speedoflight.htm

Whoa! Stop the presses, this can't be true. Al said it wasn't possible! On the contrary, our friend Albert "theorized" it wasn't possible. What was missing during his time was the technology of today, and what shall we be missing today that will no doubt exist 50 years from now?

Can an extraterretrial life form travel from the outer reaches of our galaxy? I propose there is no way we have the right to say they cannot! At least not yet, for that scientific jury is still out.

[zoomer]

Our current scientific understanding doesn't know what consciousness is, nor what matter/energy is

When people report seeing so-called 'UFOS' (which apparently by those 'in the know' have a different name), they report --usually--phenomena that defies; OUR CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT MATTER/ENERGY, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND SPACETIME, IS!

hint hint

[Gridkeeper]

Has anyone heard of a sixty year treaty which ends on October the 28th 2007?

UFO:

http://blip.tv/file/423715

www.blip.tv/file/423715

[eogz]

Purely out of interest, and having nothing else to do, I looked at you're links I saw the trailer, but no hint of any 60 year treaty.

Can you explain it further?

[marky 54]

Our current scientific understanding doesn't know what consciousness is, nor what matter/energy is

When people report seeing so-called 'UFOS' (which apparently by those 'in the know' have a different name), they report --usually--phenomena that defies; OUR CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT MATTER/ENERGY, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND SPACETIME, IS!

hint hint

now im left wondering what you are getting at, and its really getting to me now!

what do you mean? please tell, please tell.

what are they in your opinon?

[zoomer]

Our current scientific understanding doesn't know what consciousness is, nor what matter/energy is

When people report seeing so-called 'UFOS' (which apparently by those 'in the know' have a different name), they report --usually--phenomena that defies; OUR CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT MATTER/ENERGY, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND SPACETIME, IS!

hint hint

now im left wondering what you are getting at, and its really getting to me now!

what do you mean? please tell, please tell.

what are they in your opinon?

Well, I don't know But I rather go with what I DO know, which is as I said, that science really doesn't know what consciousness is or for that matter, what matter/energy is, fact!!
So what does this say for 'authorities' of science, who try and ignore-antly preach to us they know what they are? And/or explain them away with absurd patronizing explanations.

[truthseeker john]

Hello everybody and welcome to fairyland.

Well, well. What a great distraction from the genocide now taking place using our taxpayers' money in Iraq.
And what a crock of something Gordon coloured.

To be fair Tony, as an organiser you know that it was posted under Other Controversies. Then just because you or anyone else may think that UFOs are ‘fairyland,’ it does not have to mean that in reality they do not exist.

The facts are that throughout history UFOs and ETs have been seen many times, as the meaning of many folklore, ancient books and ‘holy’ books, paintings and art and other artefacts clearly confirm to a person with an open mind. The evidence is all over and has been there for thousands of years. Why do people refuse to see it? Are we that much brighter than ancient people were? No! For instance, I’ve just seen some videos which show that the ancient Egyptians knew how the living cell divides and how the atom is made and apparently, they even had their version of string theory!

Because we have ten fingers we count in tens but ancient Egypt also used a method of calculation, which is basically the same as what our modern computers use, by counting in various combinations of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, and so on. There has been life on earth for a long, long time but some in this modern age think we know everything but in reality we know little.

I spent many years studying these things (before I became involved with the peace movement and 9-11 truth) yet only the other day I learned that there’s an ancient Hebrew word for the vehicles which angels use. Angels use vehicles? We didn’t learn much about that in Sunday school! So what this means is what we would describe as UFOs - but as we know, Christian religion hasn’t told us much about these vehicles or those who use them.

By the way, Beelzebub is said to mean the ‘Lord of the flies’ but it’s original meaning was Lord of those (things?) which fly! The truth is that the Bible as well as other ‘scripture’ or holy books, are often as much or more to with ET and UFOs as to do with an invisible God.

If one has had the time (as I have) to study with an open mind, without the mind-numbing of religion getting in the way, it can be seen that therein are described the UFOs and ETs. Many believe that angels do exist yet if the angels don’t come from Earth they are by definition, ETs. However, because of religious teachings many people have mental blocks with this subject.

It would be obvious for most people to accept that ETs or ‘the gods’ do exist and it would be common knowledge, but for many years of religious interpretations which hide their existence – yet at the same time many believe in the existence of angels! Go figure - it’s the doublethink and lemming follow-the-leader minds of people, which point to them being brainwashed.

So why exactly, has the stuff about ETs been hidden? As we know religion is used to control people’s minds and to find the answer we need to go back to the start.

The answer quite simple and it is this: The fantastic knowledge that ETs possess, can be used for evil as well as for good - hence we have the Bible story about forbidden symbolic ‘fruit’ on the symbolic ‘tree’ of 'the knowledge' - 'of good and evil.' Fruit of course, is what a tree produces and it was recognised by the Elohim that most humans cannot handle such awesome knowledge which can be used to do much good, or to do much harm or evil. So the knowledge was forbidden – yet as the story goes some of that knowledge was obtained through a character called Lucifer or the Serpent – names which indicate Light and Wisdom respectively. Far from Light and Wisdom, it turned out to be very unwise to allow humans such knowledge, which can be (used for) good or evil.

Then there is evidence that in the past whole civilisations have brought destruction upon themselves and what’s more, today we have science and technology which border on the metaphysical and we are confronted once again, with knowledge and power which could be used for good, or can be used to destroy everything - and if we are talking about genocide, we should take a look at the broader picture.

How’s that for a conspiracy? In the light of what is happening today do we think that it could be true? Please think about this carefully, because just we know that 9-11 was a conspiracy yet some don't believe it could be, it may turn out that what I have said is true.

[marky 54]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/angels

angel

A typically benevolent celestial being that acts as an intermediary between heaven and earth, especially in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Zoroastrianism.

celestial
5. an inhabitant of heaven.

heavens

Usually, heavens. the sky, firmament, or expanse of space surrounding the earth.

intermediary

1. an intermediate agent or agency; a go-between or mediator.

it does depend on how you see things, and if your open minded enough it does fit and makes sense.

i have not done the amount of research you have but have certainly looked into the history of sightings.

and verchiles with man like beings in are clearly depicted in old pottery paintings etc etc, and these were people from 400+ more years ago who none of us knew and before the sci fi boom of the 1960's/70's who are depicting things people see and report today.

[catfish]

John Searl: http://www.swallowcommand.com/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-O7WNvKSvY[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46gRnzI2os0[/youtube][GVideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9220353909[/GVideo]

[marky 54]

thanks for linking those video's. im pretty sure they account for most sightings of u.f.o's in the present day.

however im sceptical these things were around 400+ years ago or if they account for all sightings in the present day.

it could well explain my sighting of something defying the laws of physics, i don't know.

one thing is certain not all sightings are (alien) spacecraft, but the thing we still car'nt tell is if none of the sightings are from elsewhere or if its a mixture of the two.

showing this technology exsists is important, but do we assume because it does exsist then it accounts for all sightings and experiences? this is where i get stuck. especially when people from 1510 were depicting the same things.

are alien craft not real? were they manmade all along? or did man get the technology and ideas from elsewhere, which has been passed down or around the communitys overtime?

[truthseeker john]

http://www.bibleufo.com/ufos.htm
http://www.eceti.org/ufohistory.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/ufos-in-history.html

[utopiated]

Hello everybody and welcome to fairyland.

Well, well. What a great distraction from the genocide now taking place using our taxpayers' money in Iraq.
And what a crock of something Gordon coloured.

To be fair Tony, as an organiser you know that it was posted under Other Controversies. Then just because you or anyone else may think that UFOs are ‘fairyland,’ it does not have to mean that in reality they do not exist.

What Tony constantly fails to realise of course is that there is no separation between events such as Iraq, the "dump and pump" -ing of the global economy and the fact that we are being engaged by advanced life-forms of some sorts.

Tony has his own very fixed "fairyland" through which he assumes he can objectively view his idea of what's going on. There used to be lots of Tony Types in this world but having tightly straddled the activist/counter-cultural AND exopolitics/parapolitics scenes for years, I reckon they are getting fewer at an ever increasing do-do like rate - much like the way the media is HAVING to change the way it takes this issue on. Since the main 2001 Disclosure Project they've had no choice - that, further witnesses coming out, and the internet has forced their hand.

Note for example the reaction to the 12th November Press Club event:

http://www.exopolitics.org.uk/2007/gene ... witnesses/

Here's one vid of many from that event - note what Steve Bassett says in the last 5 mins about the relationship between Iraq, UFO disclosure and the WHOLE POLITICAL SYSTEM - ie: this is all part of the same crisis in authority structures and political institutions, not forgetting the hyp3r-corporated media.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vymLxCgGKM4[/youtube]

^ not best version that

What Tony misses from his fairyland is the fact that you cannot "fix" the Iraq war without fixing 9/11 and staged terror and media fakery/complicity. You can't fix *just* what the Tonys out of us see as valid without also fixing the fact that most of the black budget is disappearing into ET liaison programs and that exotic kit exists to solve half the issues of environment and poverty but is being held in black projects. No Tonys think you can pick and choose and somehow the issues we're scared of with fix themselves or maybe just go away if they're ignored.

What's hilarious to me is that the Tonys have been endlessly trying to pretend these issues aren't around for years but they keep cropping up again - thus we get comments like that one where the Tony tactic of using emotive, rhetoric language is deployed [again!] in frustration, in this case implying that anyone who dares to look at issues outside of TonyLand is *obviously* wasting resources and headspace... in fact we're actually contributing to the genocide and should know better

--

[marky 54]

did you notice how the news anchor had to keep asking questions and making references to mock or imply its all fake?

it happens everytime they mention it on the news.

talk about not just leaving it for the public to decide but instead use tatics to make the public come to the desicion its nonsence.

total whitewash news reporting IMO, something they would not need to do if there was nothing in what was being claimed.

it also goes to show how the media are the ones who keep the truth from being told in every instance. if they want to take on the role of the controllers then i believe they should be made accountable more so than politicans.