is David Ray Griffin a fraud?

[Patrick Brown]

DDD911

You might find this article about the aircraft impacts of interest: http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=7094

Well better than wasting your time with these no brainers!

[DDD911]

Yes it does because Steve Jones was brought in to discredit cold fusion
he has done the same with 911

I still don’t see how SEJ has done a disservice to 9/11 truth, the fact he’s saying “controlled demolitions” brings more unwanted questions.

This thread has been a total waste of everyone’s time, it doesn’t surprise me if the truth movement is going stale.

[uselesseater]

Yes it does because Steve Jones was brought in to discredit cold fusion
he has done the same with 911

I still don’t see how SEJ has done a disservice to 9/11 truth, the fact he’s saying “controlled demolitions” brings more unwanted questions.

This thread has been a total waste of everyone’s time, it doesn’t surprise me if the truth movement is going stale.

SEJ has done nothing wrong.

Agreed the thread is a waste of time.

Are we going to need another subforum for those who like to start threads along the lines of 'X is a Shill'.

I would be wary of anyone who appears eager to point the finger a little too quickly.

Btw. Excellent avatar!

[DDD911]

SEJ has done nothing wrong.

Agreed the thread is a waste of time.

Are we going to need another subforum for those who like to start threads along the lines of 'X is a Shill'.

I would be wary of anyone who appears eager to point the finger a little too quickly.

Btw. Excellent avatar!

Thx,

Yeah the avatar goes with me everywhere Hunter S Thompson is a legend and Johnny Depp pulled it off with style in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

TTWSU3

If Richard Falk, Professor [Emeritus] of International Law and Practice, Princeton University wants to write in say what a great forum and website this (unlikely me thinks) I don't really have problem with that

You see just because the CFR is an extremely dodgy organisation that appears wedded to the NWO agenda does not mean that every single one of their members is equally dodgy. The same with Chatham House or World Business Forum.

And then getting Richard Falk's recommendation on your book and then using this for a guilt by association attack. It means nothing to me. If you want me to suspect DRG on the back of this association, you need to show me some real dirt on Richard Falk

Similarly with the Rockefellor Foundation

Sure the Rockefellor's are an extremely dodgy clan at the heart of the NWO agenda. And their foundation supports some dodgy organisations/work. That does mean that every organisation that gets part of its funding from the Rockefellor Foundation is also equally dodgy.

It's a bit subtler than that. Take some other dodgy characters. Bill Gates and George Soros. Are you telling me that all the organisations their charitable trusts fund are also knowingly (and I stress knowingly) working for the NWO agenda

If so, you are welcome to your beliefs. I don't share them and I don't think many others do either.

I suggest these charitable trusts have a more subtle purpose. More about presenting these men as reasonable and benevolent whilst creating vehicles to promote favourable propaganda and offsetting tax liabilities.

But who knows you might be right. DRG might be a major mole in our midsts who for years has been cultivating a quiet calm persona of a studious and grandfatherly theology professor (guffaw) whilst all the while he has just been waiting for 9/11 to happen so he can hijack the inevitable truth movement and corrupt it with his devious ramblings about a new world based on christians (and other people of good faith) standing up against the evil empire. Ah, now you explain it, it is all so obvious

This is not real evidence or real dirt. Until you have proper evidence these are just more highly unhelpful and devisive speculation.

You have not answered my questions?- I will spell them out for you.

Would you be happy for the homepage of this site to have an introduction to the site by a member of the CFR?

Would you be happy for this site to receive funding from the Rockefeller Foundation?

A simple yes or no to each will do.

Please answer the question Ian

It would appear that Ian is refusing to answer the question, now why is that?

[ian neal]

Potentially the answer to both is yes

If Richard Falk wants to write something in support this site, I would have no problem in publicising the fact. It wouldn't put it on the front page since the whole site is soon to be revamped anyway.

If the Rockefeller Foundation wants to give the campaign a load of dosh without compromising our independence then again I would not have a problem with this (although I'm not holding my breathe however).

I would even take money direct from Bush provided it had no strings attached.

What dastardly work did the grant from the Rockefeller Foundation that you link to DRG actually fund? Did the grant perhaps date to a time before DRG converted to 9/11 scepticism?

[ian neal]

I tell you what TTWSU3

I set you a challenge. You would appear to have doubts about my genuineness, trustworthiness and sincerity.

I guess this because you ask "now why is that?"

If you genuinely know who's who and how we came about, you will have no problem in doing a little research and finding out about me. My background, where I work, how I became involved in the movement and so forth.

If I am not in some way genuine you should have no problem in being able to demonstrate this and present an evidence based case for your suspicions.

I've yet to type this up, but the new improved moderation policy will ban any evidence free speculation as who is or is not a shill. Just FYI like.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

I tell you what TTWSU3

I set you a challenge. You would appear to have doubts about my genuineness, trustworthiness and sincerity.

I guess this because you ask "now why is that?"

If you genuinely know who's who and how we came about, you will have no problem in doing a little research and finding out about me. My background, where I work, how I became involved in the movement and so forth.

If I am not in some way genuine you should have no problem in being able to demonstrate this and present an evidence based case for your suspicions.

I've yet to type this up, but the new improved moderation policy will ban any evidence free speculation as who is or is not a shill. Just FYI like.

there's no such thing as a free lunch

[marky 54]

I tell you what TTWSU3

I set you a challenge. You would appear to have doubts about my genuineness, trustworthiness and sincerity.

I guess this because you ask "now why is that?"

If you genuinely know who's who and how we came about, you will have no problem in doing a little research and finding out about me. My background, where I work, how I became involved in the movement and so forth.

If I am not in some way genuine you should have no problem in being able to demonstrate this and present an evidence based case for your suspicions.

I've yet to type this up, but the new improved moderation policy will ban any evidence free speculation as who is or is not a shill. Just FYI like.

there's no such thing as a free lunch

i swallowed a fly once so strictly speaking thats not true
not a meal of my choice but it wa'nt like i had a choice.

[lostpomme]

I stopped posting on this board because I got tired of petty infighting and fruitless arguments that went in circles and never evolved into anything productive. Too many people get wrapped up in this one issue leading them to focus far too much on the problem and divert their attention away from any potential solution.
Don't get me wrong, this place opened my eyes to a lot and I dare say i'd still be clueless without it, but I reached a point where rabid arguments for NPT and the widely held view that 911 is the only issue just drove me away. I wasn't certain I had made the right choice until I came back and stumbled on this thread. What a joke. Perfect example of submission to fear. Truthwillsetu3, is there anyone you DO trust? If you step back and look at the bigger picture you'll see that villains don't await at every turn, and the solution is in overcoming fear, not submitting to it.

DRG?! Are you serious???

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

I stopped posting on this board because I got tired of petty infighting and fruitless arguments that went in circles and never evolved into anything productive. Too many people get wrapped up in this one issue leading them to focus far too much on the problem and divert their attention away from any potential solution.
Don't get me wrong, this place opened my eyes to a lot and I dare say i'd still be clueless without it, but I reached a point where rabid arguments for NPT and the widely held view that 911 is the only issue just drove me away. I wasn't certain I had made the right choice until I came back and stumbled on this thread. What a joke. Perfect example of submission to fear. Truthwillsetu3, is there anyone you DO trust? If you step back and look at the bigger picture you'll see that villains don't await at every turn, and the solution is in overcoming fear, not submitting to it.

DRG?! Are you serious???

DRG --- supports a one world government
DRG --- associates with a member of the CFR
DRG --- has accepted funding from The Rockefeller Foundation
DRG---- has done work for The Club of Rome

[lostpomme]

I stopped posting on this board because I got tired of petty infighting and fruitless arguments that went in circles and never evolved into anything productive. Too many people get wrapped up in this one issue leading them to focus far too much on the problem and divert their attention away from any potential solution.
Don't get me wrong, this place opened my eyes to a lot and I dare say i'd still be clueless without it, but I reached a point where rabid arguments for NPT and the widely held view that 911 is the only issue just drove me away. I wasn't certain I had made the right choice until I came back and stumbled on this thread. What a joke. Perfect example of submission to fear. Truthwillsetu3, is there anyone you DO trust? If you step back and look at the bigger picture you'll see that villains don't await at every turn, and the solution is in overcoming fear, not submitting to it.

DRG?! Are you serious???

DRG --- supports a one world government
DRG --- associates with a member of the CFR
DRG --- has accepted funding from The Rockefeller Foundation
DRG---- has done work for The Club of Rome

Links?

[lostpomme]

I stopped posting on this board because I got tired of petty infighting and fruitless arguments that went in circles and never evolved into anything productive. Too many people get wrapped up in this one issue leading them to focus far too much on the problem and divert their attention away from any potential solution.
Don't get me wrong, this place opened my eyes to a lot and I dare say i'd still be clueless without it, but I reached a point where rabid arguments for NPT and the widely held view that 911 is the only issue just drove me away. I wasn't certain I had made the right choice until I came back and stumbled on this thread. What a joke. Perfect example of submission to fear. Truthwillsetu3, is there anyone you DO trust? If you step back and look at the bigger picture you'll see that villains don't await at every turn, and the solution is in overcoming fear, not submitting to it.

DRG?! Are you serious???

DRG --- supports a one world government
DRG --- associates with a member of the CFR
DRG --- has accepted funding from The Rockefeller Foundation
DRG---- has done work for The Club of Rome

Links?

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

I stopped posting on this board because I got tired of petty infighting and fruitless arguments that went in circles and never evolved into anything productive. Too many people get wrapped up in this one issue leading them to focus far too much on the problem and divert their attention away from any potential solution.
Don't get me wrong, this place opened my eyes to a lot and I dare say i'd still be clueless without it, but I reached a point where rabid arguments for NPT and the widely held view that 911 is the only issue just drove me away. I wasn't certain I had made the right choice until I came back and stumbled on this thread. What a joke. Perfect example of submission to fear. Truthwillsetu3, is there anyone you DO trust? If you step back and look at the bigger picture you'll see that villains don't await at every turn, and the solution is in overcoming fear, not submitting to it.

DRG?! Are you serious???

DRG --- supports a one world government
DRG --- associates with a member of the CFR
DRG --- has accepted funding from The Rockefeller Foundation
DRG---- has done work for The Club of Rome

Links?

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id24.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id25.html

[Fallious]

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id24.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id25.html

This website is affiliated with verizon who has significant ties with military and government operations, including FEMA

http://news.tmcnet.com/news/2007/02/09/2328245.htm
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/0 ... -army.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/02/14/2336303.htm

See how easy it is?

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id24.html

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze25x9n/id25.html

This website is affiliated with verizon who has significant ties with military and government operations, including FEMA

http://news.tmcnet.com/news/2007/02/09/2328245.htm
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/0 ... -army.html
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2007/02/14/2336303.htm

See how easy it is?

You don't half talk some * Fallious

Verizon in this instance is the ISP (nothing more)

Is that the best you can come up with?

[Headhunter]

Btw, DRG is the prime consultant helping to perfect the script for the upcoming release of Loose Change, Final Cut. I trust him. His NWO stuff is simply about an emerging global village framed within the context of Civility and mutuality.

[Fallious]

And yet, her website IS affiliated with Verizon, she made a choice to associate with this provider should we examine at that choice more closely? Just making a simple point.

As far as I can see DRG defends his position perfectly well in the second link you provide. The fact that he's so open about the whole issue should should probably count for his integrity.

Before waking up I was quite content with the idea of a one world government and I understand his arguments. Not to say I agree, but I think that you and Angie need to have a long hard think about what DRG has and will do for the movement. You might want to including the fact that I haven't once seen him mix his OWG aspirations with Truth movement business, to date.

Bottom line. I personally see DRG's contributions to 9/11 truth to be outstanding, he is a great speaker and popular author, news shows in America are apparently scared to feature DRG because of his ways of presenting 9/11 truth so clearly, i'd much rather have him on our side than not.

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

And yet, her website IS affiliated with Verizon, she made a choice to associate with this provider should we examine at that choice more closely? Just making a simple point.

As far as I can see DRG defends his position perfectly well in the second link you provide. The fact that he's so open about the whole issue should should probably count for his integrity.

Before waking up I was quite content with the idea of a one world government and I understand his arguments. Not to say I agree, but I think that you and Angie need to have a long hard think about what DRG has and will do for the movement. You might want to including the fact that I haven't once seen him mix his OWG aspirations with Truth movement business, to date.

Bottom line. I personally see DRG's contributions to 9/11 truth to be outstanding, he is a great speaker and popular author, news shows in America are apparently scared to feature DRG because of his ways of presenting 9/11 truth so clearly, i'd much rather have him on our side than not.

Fallious have you ever read a book or watched a film and the character you thought for the most part was the good guy turns out to be the bad guy?

[Fallious]

And yet, her website IS affiliated with Verizon, she made a choice to associate with this provider should we examine at that choice more closely? Just making a simple point.

As far as I can see DRG defends his position perfectly well in the second link you provide. The fact that he's so open about the whole issue should should probably count for his integrity.

Before waking up I was quite content with the idea of a one world government and I understand his arguments. Not to say I agree, but I think that you and Angie need to have a long hard think about what DRG has and will do for the movement. You might want to including the fact that I haven't once seen him mix his OWG aspirations with Truth movement business, to date.

Bottom line. I personally see DRG's contributions to 9/11 truth to be outstanding, he is a great speaker and popular author, news shows in America are apparently scared to feature DRG because of his ways of presenting 9/11 truth so clearly, i'd much rather have him on our side than not.

Fallious have you ever read a book or watched a film and the character you thought for the most part was the good guy turns out to be the bad guy?

I don't assume DRG to be a "good guy" or "bad buy". This is a very similar theme to the Fittan Dunne thread over in the general forum, I suggest you take a look at it.

When I consider DRG's record I see a man who has done a very great deal of good for the 9/11 truth movement, he's written books which have been accepted into the mainstream and done tireless work with other researchers and film developers. I'm sure he's directly responsible for the wake up of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people to the reality of world politics and the war on terror.

Beyond that, I have no expectation for the man, if tomorrow he were to begin preaching NPT (though it would cause me to have a very serious look at his research) i'd probably begin debunking his work within hours. Would it make him a "Bad Guy"? No more than Judy Woods or Jim Fetzer, who have both in their time contributed some excellent research to 9/11 truth.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

[lostpomme]

...his NWO stuff is simply about an emerging global village framed within the context of Civility and mutuality.

And who wouldn't support that? A new world order isn't a bad thing, its THEIR new world order that's the problem. People would do well to separate the two. Anyone who invites division over unity is still sleeping soundly in the dream.

[John White]

...his NWO stuff is simply about an emerging global village framed within the context of Civility and mutuality.

And who wouldn't support that? A new world order isn't a bad thing, its THEIR new world order that's the problem. People would do well to separate the two. Anyone who invites division over unity is still sleeping soundly in the dream.

Word

World Peace requires unity, World War requires division: what an elite cabal might imagine as "a new world order" is only one of many many possibilities: and its the one we get if we are passive spoon fed emotional infants to boot

There comes a time that anyone firmly into "New World Order = Evil" (as TWSU3 apears to be) has to confront the powerful questions: "What do I want if it is NOT a "NWO": after all consider how I see the world at the moment! My vision is hardly for it to stay the same!" and "How can there be Peace if their is NOT unity?"

From my perspective , the real choice is between Unity through Conformity (the totalitarian model exposed by Alex Jones et al) and Unity through Diversity (The spiritual promise of all mankind). A choice between Fear and Love in a nutshell

[lostpomme]

A choice between Fear and Love in a nutshell

And thats all it comes down to in the end... Spend you life paralysed or spend it free.

Just think of all those extra hours you'd be left with to make the world a better place instead of adding to the fear machine...

[lostpomme]

A choice between Fear and Love in a nutshell

And thats all it comes down to in the end... Spend you life paralysed or spend it free.

Just think of all those extra hours you'd be left with to make the world a better place instead of adding to the fear machine...

[lostpomme]

reminds me of vern in stand by me.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNujSaLwm4 1 min eight seconds