Give me photographic evidence...

[prole art threat]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

[Ignatz]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

[telecasterisation]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

You pose a difficult question for both others and yourself to answer to a satisfactory conclusion.

Firstly how do you know what the 'hijackers' look like? We are given photos by official sources of those who are supposed to have been involved. Yet we are also told some of the 'hijackers' are still alive and working abroad - so are those shown the hijackers as they really looked?

Therefore, look at the accompanying images, supposedly of those involved - do they satisfy you? If not, is it because you don't know who you are looking at? Is it actually the right airport? Is it an airport? Is it the right day?

Your question cannot really be answered for even if the photos are genuine and of the people concerned, who are we to say that they are legitimate or just Vipin Mahatmacoat at Butlin's security desk?

[prole art threat]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

You pose a difficult question for both others and yourself to answer to a satisfactory conclusion.

Firstly how do you know what the 'hijackers' look like? We are given photos by official sources of those who are supposed to have been involved. Yet we are also told some of the 'hijackers' are still alive and working abroad - so are those shown the hijackers as they really looked?

Therefore, look at the accompanying images, supposedly of those involved - do they satisfy you? If not, is it because you don't know who you are looking at? Is it actually the right airport? Is it an airport? Is it the right day?

Your question cannot really be answered for even if the photos are genuine and of the people concerned, who are we to say that they are legitimate or just Vipin Mahatmacoat at Butlin's security desk?

Listen, we were given photos of the so called 'hijackers' we match them to them. If hijackers really, truly, honestly got on that plane there would have been pictures. They didnt, they didnt provide anything apart from the Mohammed Atta publicity shot.

I mean, we didnt know what the 7/7 bombers looked like but they still gave us pictures. I really dont get your point, Telecasterisation. You tend to play this devil advovate's position all the time, I sometimes wonder why you dont join this lot down here on a permanent basis.

[prole art threat]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

They werent on the planes. You know that. Hey how are those kids with behavioural problems you work with? I presume they are much better when youre not around them??

[Fallious]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

They werent on the planes. You know that. Hey how are those kids with behavioural problems you work with? I presume they are much better when youre not around them??

I guess your crusade allows you to insult anyone you like huh?

[chipmunk stew]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

They werent on the planes. You know that. Hey how are those kids with behavioural problems you work with? I presume they are much better when youre not around them??

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

[Ignatz]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

They werent on the planes. You know that. Hey how are those kids with behavioural problems you work with? I presume they are much better when youre not around them??

Are you suggesting the pilots just had an off day and all spontaneously decided to fly into important buildings? Or was it a suicide pact?

[prole art threat]

If they didn't, how did they get on the planes?

They werent on the planes. You know that. Hey how are those kids with behavioural problems you work with? I presume they are much better when youre not around them??

Are you suggesting the pilots just had an off day and all spontaneously decided to fly into important buildings? Or was it a suicide pact?

Im suggesting you are suffering from a severe mental illness, Ignatz, nothing more, nothing less.

[prole art threat]

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"


In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

[Ignatz]

Are you suggesting the pilots just had an off day and all spontaneously decided to fly into important buildings? Or was it a suicide pact?

Im suggesting you are suffering from a severe mental illness, Ignatz, nothing more, nothing less.

Ah. But who flew the planes into the buildings, if it wasn't the hijackers?

[Dogsmilk]

But there were no planes...

sorry, couldn't resist it.


However, the issue presumably rests on whether the identity of the alleged hijackers can be satisfactorily confirmed; if not, it makes little sense to say it must have been them anyway because you don't know who else did.

While we're talking hijackers, what I'd really like to know is how they managed to have a 100% success rate in getting knives, mace and boxcutters on board the planes, with one 'unresolved' metal detector incident. I've been on internal flights in the US before 911 and in my (very limited) experience, they weren't that slack. Just seem pretty lucky or devilish cunning.

[Bushwacker]

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"


In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

And Mark Bingham's mother's comment that when he was in work, "official" mode he often used both names to her, are we to ignore that? Or perhaps it is just proof of how carefully they faked the voices?

[John White]

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"


In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

And Mark Bingham's mother's comment that when he was in work, "official" mode he often used both names to her, are we to ignore that? Or perhaps it is just proof of how carefully they faked the voices?

Ignore it? Certainly not. (source please?)

But it could just as easily indicate the woman's been leaned on as it may indicate her son was a "special" person with an emotionally retarded way of expressing himself

[chipmunk stew]

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"


In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

And Mark Bingham's mother's comment that when he was in work, "official" mode he often used both names to her, are we to ignore that? Or perhaps it is just proof of how carefully they faked the voices?

Ignore it? Certainly not. (source please?)

But it could just as easily indicate the woman's been leaned on as it may indicate her son was a "special" person with an emotionally retarded way of expressing himself

You're a right b*st*rd. Pissing on both Mark and Mrs. Bingham in a single short sentence.

[telecasterisation]

proving that these mythical hijackers went anywhere near an airport on September 11th, 2001.

You pose a difficult question for both others and yourself to answer to a satisfactory conclusion.

Firstly how do you know what the 'hijackers' look like? We are given photos by official sources of those who are supposed to have been involved. Yet we are also told some of the 'hijackers' are still alive and working abroad - so are those shown the hijackers as they really looked?

Therefore, look at the accompanying images, supposedly of those involved - do they satisfy you? If not, is it because you don't know who you are looking at? Is it actually the right airport? Is it an airport? Is it the right day?

Your question cannot really be answered for even if the photos are genuine and of the people concerned, who are we to say that they are legitimate or just Vipin Mahatmacoat at Butlin's security desk?

Listen, we were given photos of the so called 'hijackers' we match them to them. If hijackers really, truly, honestly got on that plane there would have been pictures. They didnt, they didnt provide anything apart from the Mohammed Atta publicity shot.

I mean, we didnt know what the 7/7 bombers looked like but they still gave us pictures. I really dont get your point, Telecasterisation. You tend to play this devil advovate's position all the time, I sometimes wonder why you dont join this lot down here on a permanent basis.

I understand my point is difficult to tackle, but you seem to be struggling with the concept of identity theft. We are told that many of the hijackers are still alive, so I am unable to draw any type of conclusion as to the people actually being the hijackers, alive or dead.

Many of people from that part of the world look 'similar' so it is easy to replace one with another. In addition, we are shown official pictures of the terrorists/supposed hijackers - how do you know they are genuine?

My point is crystal clear - there are many sources for stills taken from airport cameras of the supposed terrorist hijackers - these are proof in one form, deny or accept, it is your choice. What would be acceptable proof for you??

As for the Devil's advocate aspect, I simply supplied what you asked for, it does not mean I believe any of it.

[John White]

And Mark Bingham's mother's comment that when he was in work, "official" mode he often used both names to her, are we to ignore that? Or perhaps it is just proof of how carefully they faked the voices?

Ignore it? Certainly not. (source please?)

But it could just as easily indicate the woman's been leaned on as it may indicate her son was a "special" person with an emotionally retarded way of expressing himself

You're a right b*st*rd. Pissing on both Mark and Mrs. Bingham in a single short sentence.

Somewhat illogical Chipmunk. If Mrs Bingham had been leaned on, she'd deserve sympathy for being put in that plight. And you can ask as many human beings as you like, the massive consensus is going to be that any child talking to his or her mother who introduces themselves with both their names is somewhat unusual.

Do you have a source for Bushwacker's statement? Or are you playing the man and not the ball?

[scubadiver]

Though I can't remember the source now, I did hear or read somewhere that Mark's mum did say that his habit was to say both names to her because he did it so many times while working.

[telecasterisation]

Though I can't remember the source now, I did hear or read somewhere that Mark's mum did say that his habit was to say both names to her because he did it so many times while working.

Absolutely agreed, I too read this. In fact, I was not allowed to make personal calls at work and used to used to call my mum 'Mrs Johnson' when I called her from work (my parents were divorced by then so we never had the same surname at that time). On a couple of occasions I did the same from home by force of habit.

This is not proof of what happened on 9/11, but I can relate to the 'whole' name thing. It is a bit strange though why you would revert to such a naming convention during times of stress.

[chipmunk stew]

Ignore it? Certainly not. (source please?)

But it could just as easily indicate the woman's been leaned on as it may indicate her son was a "special" person with an emotionally retarded way of expressing himself

You're a right b*st*rd. Pissing on both Mark and Mrs. Bingham in a single short sentence.

Somewhat illogical Chipmunk. If Mrs Bingham had been leaned on, she'd deserve sympathy for being put in that plight.

Forgive me, I wrote in haste--her name is not Bingham, it's Alice Hoglan.

You're saying she's lying. Whether she was "leaned on" or not, you're accusing her of lying to cover up the truth behind her son's murder.

And you can ask as many human beings as you like, the massive consensus is going to be that any child talking to his or her mother who introduces themselves with both their names is somewhat unusual.

Next time you're under life-or-death stress and say something a bit odd, I'll be sure to call you a retard.

Do you have a source for Bushwacker's statement?

[GVideo]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 0&hl=en-CA[/GVideo]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGlmraPnbV8[/youtube]

Bingham's wasn't the only call that got through, you know. If Mark Bingham's voice was faked, then so were:

Tom Burnett's


Jeremy Glick's


Edward Felt's


Linda Gronlund's


Todd Beamer's


Honor Elizabeth Wainio's


CeeCee Lyles'


Sandra Bradshaw's


Lauren Grandcolas'


It also means the cockpit voice recorder was faked.
Is it getting absurd enough for you yet?

[chipmunk stew]

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"

In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

By the way, this is how the call went, according to Ms. Hoglan:

ALICE HOGLAN:
I took the phone and I heard my son's voice and he said to me, "Mom, this is Mark Bingham." I knew from that he was trying to maintain composure, but I could tell he was a little rattled because he was giving me his first and last names. He said, "I want to let you know that I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco, and there are three guys on board who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb."

.....

ALICE HOGLAN:
It sounded as if someone was speaking to him quietly, possibly sitting right next to him, then he came back on the line and said, "You believe me, don't you?" I said, "I believe you, who are these guys?" There was another long pause. I listened and then the phone went dead.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1726647.stm

[Patrick Brown]

You're one of these voice morphing fakery proponents, aren't you?

"Hi Mum. It's Mark Bingham here.....you do believe me , dont you?"

In answer to your question, er, yes I am.

By the way, this is how the call went, according to Ms. Hoglan:

ALICE HOGLAN:
I took the phone and I heard my son's voice and he said to me, "Mom, this is Mark Bingham." I knew from that he was trying to maintain composure, but I could tell he was a little rattled because he was giving me his first and last names. He said, "I want to let you know that I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco, and there are three guys on board who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb."

.....

ALICE HOGLAN:
It sounded as if someone was speaking to him quietly, possibly sitting right next to him, then he came back on the line and said, "You believe me, don't you?" I said, "I believe you, who are these guys?" There was another long pause. I listened and then the phone went dead.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1726647.stm

You might have been wining until you made that last post munky.

I just don't understand why Mark Bingham said “You believe me, don't you” am I the only person who thinks this is very strange? It's almost like someone is trying to convince Alice Hoglan that her son was on a plane with three terrorists! My point is we don't even know if he was on a plane so it may have been Mark Bingham giving us a clue before... well he's dead isn't he!

[chipmunk stew]

You're a right b*st*rd. Pissing on both Mark and Mrs. Bingham in a single short sentence.

Somewhat illogical Chipmunk. If Mrs Bingham had been leaned on, she'd deserve sympathy for being put in that plight.

Forgive me, I wrote in haste--her name is not Bingham, it's Alice Hoglan.

You're saying she's lying. Whether she was "leaned on" or not, you're accusing her of lying to cover up the truth behind her son's murder.

And you can ask as many human beings as you like, the massive consensus is going to be that any child talking to his or her mother who introduces themselves with both their names is somewhat unusual.

Next time you're under life-or-death stress and say something a bit odd, I'll be sure to call you a retard.

Do you have a source for Bushwacker's statement?

[GVideo]http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 0&hl=en-CA[/GVideo]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGlmraPnbV8[/youtube]

Bingham's wasn't the only call that got through, you know. If Mark Bingham's voice was faked, then so were:

Tom Burnett's


Jeremy Glick's


Edward Felt's


Linda Gronlund's


Todd Beamer's


Honor Elizabeth Wainio's


CeeCee Lyles'


Sandra Bradshaw's


Lauren Grandcolas'


It also means the cockpit voice recorder was faked.
Is it getting absurd enough for you yet?

Anyone else's final words to their loved ones you'd like to accuse of fakery without any evidence, Patrick?

[Patrick Brown]

Were all those people on the same flight?

[chipmunk stew]

Were all those people on the same flight?

Yes. Flight 93.

There were also calls from other planes.

Flight 11 callers included:

Betty Ong


Madeline Amy Sweeney


Flight 77 callers included:

Barbara Olson


Renee May


Flight 175 callers included:

Peter Hanson


Brian David Sweeney


Garnet Bailey


Robert Fangman


All fakes?

[Patrick Brown]

Were all those people on the same flight?

Yes. Flight 93.

There were also calls from other planes.

Flight 11 callers included:

Hmm any from flights 175 and 11?

[chipmunk stew]

Hmm any from flights 175 and 11?

Seriously? Here, I'll make it easy for you.

Were all those people on the same flight?

Yes. Flight 93.

There were also calls from other planes.

Flight 11 callers included:

Betty Ong


Madeline Amy Sweeney


Flight 77 callers included:

Barbara Olson


Renee May


Flight 175 callers included:

Peter Hanson


Brian David Sweeney


Garnet Bailey


Robert Fangman


All fakes?

[prole art threat]

....and each and every one of these lucky callers managed to get through, despite the fact that they were in the midst of an hijacking and making panic-stricken calls from planes flying at such high speeds. Ah, September 11th, 2001, the skies were full of magic and wonder....

[chipmunk stew]

....and each and every one of these lucky callers managed to get through, despite the fact that they were in the midst of an hijacking and making panic-stricken calls from planes flying at such high speeds. Ah, September 11th, 2001, the skies were full of magic and wonder....

Yes, almost every call was made from a magical device called an air phone.

There are also many attempted calls recorded by the phone companies that never got through.

[prole art threat]

....and each and every one of these lucky callers managed to get through, despite the fact that they were in the midst of an hijacking and making panic-stricken calls from planes flying at such high speeds. Ah, September 11th, 2001, the skies were full of magic and wonder....

Yes, almost every call was made from a magical device called an air phone.

You were standing next to them all were you? It must have been a big queue??