Plane crash into Office Building, we await freefall collapse

[Pugwash]

This thread seams to bestow Joe Stack with heroic status.
The actual act however was not an heroic action but it can reasonable be argued that it was an act of desperation. Further the loss of innocent lives should never be treated lightly.
It maybe a sad fact that many more innocent lives have to be lost in the before those of true guilty are brought to account. Regardless on the grounds of humanity such actions should not be condoned, but given understanding from where such actions originate.

[Disco_Destroyer]

it's amazing what kinetic energy can do isn't it?

of course - according to the "laws" of "noplaner physics" (lol) a small plane like this would have just bounced off such a big building - so the whole thing must be fake....

I can't wait for some deluded numpty like andrew johnson to come along and "prove" that there was no plane, all the witnesses are paid actors, the pilot never really existed etc etc....

can you see any "toasted" cars in the wreckage?

is this another beam weapon attack?

I hope you're all "checking the evidence" folks!

I personally have no problem with a light aircraft entering such a building.
Pre-fabricated steel framed glass frontage like most modern office buildings
Now if it had been Marble panels or an older Re-inforced concrete then I'd have concerns but Glass come on
That said I have an open mind and q's need to be answered!

[Disco_Destroyer]

I never heard of Marvin John Heemeyer til today :0

[Andrew.]

This thread seams to bestow Joe Stack with heroic status.
The actual act however was not an heroic action but it can reasonable be argued that it was an act of desperation. Further the loss of innocent lives should never be treated lightly.
It maybe a sad fact that many more innocent lives have to be lost in the before those of true guilty are brought to account. Regardless on the grounds of humanity such actions should not be condoned, but given understanding from where such actions originate.

(edit)
While he never went about it the right way. They were not innocent. They were thieves (breaking up what should be a lawful society; but is not) which is a shame, but shows how backwards our (most peoples) programing is.

As far as the real Laws are, he has done no wrong. And the irony is it's not even suicide as he has given his life to help others from these thieves.

Hence the point not being seen,but by only a few if you look around the web.

Also hence the importance of repealing all false NWO legislation because of the harm injury and loss it causes. Which forces people to have to defend themselves.

[Pugwash]

Vernon Hunter, 67, Revenue Office Manager
Friends mourn, pray for Vernon Hunter
http://www.kvue.com/news/Friends-and-fa ... 20277.html

AUSTIN, Texas -- The daughter of a man who crashed his small plane into a building housing offices of the Internal Revenue Service called her father a hero for his anti-government views but said his actions, which killed an IRS employee, were "inappropriate."
Joe Stack’s adult daughter, Samantha Bell, spoke to ABC’s "Good Morning America" from her home in Norway. Asked during a phone interview broadcast Monday if she considered her father a hero, she said: "Yes. Because now maybe people will listen." Authorities say Stack, 53, targeted the IRS office building in Austin on Thursday, killing employee Vernon Hunter and himself, after posting a ranting manifesto against the agency and the government. He apparently set fire to his home before flying his plane into the office building.
Hunter’s son, Ken Hunter, said he’s alarmed by comments that the pilot was a hero.
"How can you call someone a hero who after he burns down his house, he gets into his plane ... and flies it into a building to kill people?" Hunter told ABC." "My dad Vernon did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My dad’s a hero."
Bell said she offered her deepest condolences to Hunter’s family. She said her father’s last actions were wrong.
"But if nobody comes out and speaks up on behalf of injustice, then nothing will ever be accomplished," she told ABC. "But I do not agree with his last action with what he did. But I do agree
about the government."

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/Daughter ... 68417.html

So Vernon Hunter, 67, Revenue Office Manager is one of the

thieves (breaking up what should be a lawful society

How about Vernon Hunter, 67, Bog Cleaner? If you have so little respect for human life what consideration do you give to the 13 (of the thousands) blown to pieces by 'accident' in Afganistan?

[Andrew.]

Quote:
thieves (breaking up what should be a lawful society

How about Vernon Hunter, 67, Bog Cleaner? If you have so little respect for human life what consideration do you give to the 13 (of the thousands) blown to pieces by 'accident' in Afganistan?

(edit)
Afganistan are defending themselves from murderers.

'My dad Vernon did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My dad’s a hero.'

? (used by the so called ptb as cannon fodder) but*

'How about Vernon Hunter, 67, Bog Cleaner?'

he would have been working for the IRS as a janitor. *There is no sitting on the fence with the Law. It's one or the other.


*Hence the importance of repealing all false NWO legislation because of the harm injury and loss it causes. Which forces people to have to defend themselves.

[fish5133]

Romans 12:17-19 (King James Version)

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

verse 19 is often misquoted as just "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord " and miss out the important bit " i will repay"


People of faith and no faith hanker for justice. Whilst we rely on legal systems made by men or the actions ouside of law made by men these are imperfect and open to abuse. I rest assured that at the final whistle ( or trumpet) the God of all the universe( no i am not a freemason) will repay all those miscarriages of justice, all those lying warmongering politicians---aye but what about your own injustices, your own lies!

sorry got carried away in a mini sermon- you get my drift

[Andrew.]

Romans 12:17-19 (King James Version)

17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

verse 19 is often misquoted as just "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord " and miss out the important bit " i will repay"


People of faith and no faith hanker for justice. Whilst we rely on legal systems made by men or the actions ouside of law made by men these are imperfect and open to abuse. I rest assured that at the final whistle ( or trumpet) the God of all the universe( no i am not a freemason) will repay all those miscarriages of justice, all those lying warmongering politicians---aye but what about your own injustices, your own lies!

sorry got carried away in a mini sermon- you get my drift

1:5 Now the end of the commandment is compassion out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned:
1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1:7 Desiring to be teachers of The Law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1:8 But we know that The Law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully;
1:9 Knowing this, that The Law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the unGodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least *COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.


*Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, [there shall] no blood [be shed] for him.

[Disco_Destroyer]

I think there is a snippet in the bible to justify all actions
Just going on posts from The Last Day Watchers Blog on Facebook

[Andrew.]

I think there is a snippet in the bible to justify all actions
Just going on posts from The Last Day Watchers Blog on Facebook

I know it’s been twisted to do as you say, but there is only one interpretation and there are many fake books purporting to be Bibles.
It’s as easy as it’s all between what is good and bad (not your definition of it, as per your post and actions)



If you want to learn more about the Law ask these people.

http://bornagainfreeman.ning.com/forum/ ... did-he-die

[Pugwash]

There are Afghans resisting an occupying forces 'defending themselves from murderers'. Such were not only applauded but supplied with arms by the West when seen as against Russian expansionism. However the 13 dead in the last atrocity as with the majority of deaths, detainees and torture victims are civilian focused on survival unable to other active resistance. This is true of all modern warfare, the grief of family is no less for innocent victims as that of freedom fighters.

To classify Vernon Hunter as one of the 'thieves breaking up what should be a lawful society' is about as intelligent as blaming a bank clerk for the London Bombings. If we as society accept such deaths as collateral damage in the mindset of video gamers and warmongers we lose are right to speak for common morality.

Notwithstanding Joe Stack’s desperation and admiral sentiments on the injustices to himself and society in general it is hoped that any reduced to having a single private airplane will give greater consideration to their target of vengeance.

[Andrew.]

There are Afghans resisting an occupying forces 'defending themselves from murderers'. Such were not only applauded but supplied with arms by the West when seen as against Russian expansionism. However the 13 dead in the last atrocity as with the majority of deaths, detainees and torture victims are civilian focused on survival unable to other active resistance. This is true of all modern warfare, the grief of family is no less for innocent victims as that of freedom fighters.

To classify Vernon Hunter as one of the 'thieves breaking up what should be a lawful society' is about as intelligent as blaming a bank clerk for the London Bombings. If we as society accept such deaths as collateral damage in the mindset of video gamers and warmongers we lose are right to speak for common morality.

Notwithstanding Joe Stack’s desperation and admiral sentiments on the injustices to himself and society in general it is hoped that any reduced to having a single private airplane will give greater consideration to their target of vengeance.

I'm glad you said that 'To classify Vernon Hunter as one of the 'thieves breaking up what should be a lawful society' is about as intelligent as blaming a bank clerk for the London Bombings.'

So if people continue to do the bidding of the NWO, all the problems will go away then? (london bombing was on the public. Indiscriminately)

Hence the importance of repealing all false NWO legislation because of the harm injury and loss it causes. Which forces people to have to defend themselves from those who do their bidding.

(edit)
'their target of vengeance.' What Law did he break?

[gruts]

There are Afghans resisting an occupying forces 'defending themselves from murderers'. Such were not only applauded but supplied with arms by the West when seen as against Russian expansionism. However the 13 dead in the last atrocity as with the majority of deaths, detainees and torture victims are civilian focused on survival unable to other active resistance. This is true of all modern warfare, the grief of family is no less for innocent victims as that of freedom fighters.

To classify Vernon Hunter as one of the 'thieves breaking up what should be a lawful society' is about as intelligent as blaming a bank clerk for the London Bombings. If we as society accept such deaths as collateral damage in the mindset of video gamers and warmongers we lose are right to speak for common morality.

Notwithstanding Joe Stack’s desperation and admiral sentiments on the injustices to himself and society in general it is hoped that any reduced to having a single private airplane will give greater consideration to their target of vengeance.

I'm glad you said that 'To classify Vernon Hunter as one of the 'thieves breaking up what should be a lawful society' is about as intelligent as blaming a bank clerk for the London Bombings.'

So if people continue to do the bidding of the NWO, all the problems will go away then? (london bombing was on the public. Indiscriminately)

Hence the importance of repealing all false NWO legislation because of the harm injury and loss it causes. Which forces people to have to defend themselves from those who do their bidding.

(edit)
'their target of vengeance.' What Law did he break?

the conclusion of stack's online diatribe that you posted earlier - ie "violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer" - is not something I'd ever agree with. And if "defending yourself" involves killing and maiming innocent people then it's not only wrong but counter-productive.

what exactly did Vernon Hunter and the people who were injured do to deserve their fate? were they all evil agents of the government or just ordinary folks trying to make ends meet like the rest of us?

[Andrew.]

the conclusion of stack's online diatribe that you posted earlier - ie "violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer" - is not something I'd ever agree with. And if "defending yourself" involves killing and maiming innocent people then it's not only wrong but counter-productive.

what exactly did Vernon Hunter and the people who were injured do to deserve their fate? were they all evil agents of the government or just ordinary folks trying to make ends meet like the rest of us?

Yes he went about it the wrong way, but he did not break any Law.

And he did not commit suicide as he gave his life (human) to save others from them that are breaking the Law.

They as far as the Law goes were not innocent.

'were they all evil agents of the government'

Yes
(but should have an opportunity to repent) which they have had thousands of years to do. How much longer is sealed.

*But should also be told that they have a choice on who they are going to Obey and what Laws they are going to Obey.

*Hence the importance of repealing all false NWO legislation because of the harm injury and loss it causes. Which forces people to have to defend themselves from those who do their bidding.



"violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer" - is not something I'd ever agree with'

Self defence from evil is always within the Law. *If you want to condemn yourself thats your choice.

[gruts]

just because you've decided to believe that your interpretation of some evangelical waffle is THE LAW doesn't make it so.

and if killing and maiming innocent people who happen to work in a building that has something to do with an organisation you don't like is OK according to this law, then it's clear that the law sucks....

[Andrew.]

just because you've decided to believe that your interpretation of some evangelical waffle is THE LAW doesn't make it so.

and if killing and maiming innocent people who happen to work in a building that has something to do with an organisation you don't like is OK according to this law, then it's clear that the law sucks....

The choice is for you to learn the Law or not. You are responsible for your own soul (and temporary body)


So this organisation is good now is it? and you dont know about how corrupt it is along with the FRB? with all the time you spend on this forum?

[gruts]

how about answering the question instead of running away from it while repeating yourself over and over again and inventing straw men?

So this organisation is good now is it?

nobody said that and that's not the issue.

the issue is whether it's ok to kill/maim somebody at random who happens to either work for an organisation you don't like or somebody who just happens to be in a building that is connected to an organisation you don't like.

you clearly think it is, but I don't - so I guess we'll just have to agree to differ on this one....

[Andrew.]

how about answering the question instead of running away from it while repeating yourself over and over again and inventing straw men?

So this organisation is good now is it?

nobody said that and that's not the issue.

the issue is whether it's ok to kill/maim somebody at random who happens to either work for an organisation you don't like or somebody who just happens to be in a building that is connected to an organisation you don't like.

you clearly think it is, but I don't - so I guess we'll just have to agree to differ on this one....

Clearly you are obfuscating. Of course it's not right to murder innocent people.


So answer the question is the IRS FRB a good organisation?

I dont make the Law.

So what is it

People should steal and cheat people? (the whole of society in this case) Or people should not?

[Disco_Destroyer]

Andrew.
I agree with Gruts, besides this case is looking more interesting now.
Collateral Damage will always be Collateral Damage. You cannot force a person round to you or any viewpoint! People are caught (trapped) in their lives because they believe they are doing the right thing, they have been indoctrinated!

http://www.infowars.com/joe-stacks-intr ... -agencies/

Joe Stack’s Intriguing Connections With Defense Contractors, Intelligence Agencies


Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, February 23, 2010


Austin suicide pilot Joe Stack kept some very interesting company as far as the client list for his software programming company is concerned, including a defense contractor with NSA and Homeland Security connections that ironically dealt with air defense systems.

The Georgetown Airport hanger in which Stack’s ill-fated Piper Cherokee was kept was jointly leased by Stack and a man called John Podolak, records show. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wg1yujey_AI/S ... 0%2BPM.png

The Of Goats and Men blog http://ofgoatsandmen.blogspot.com/2010/ ... owned.html highlights the fact that Podolak was appointed in 2004 http://www.l-3com.com/avisys/news.html to manage L-3 Avisys’ Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Counter-MANPADS (Man-Portable Air Defense Systems) initiative.

L-3 Avisys is a defense contractor with its main headquarters based in Austin Texas which sells products and works closely http://www.l-3com.com/business-segments ... .aspx?id=3 with the Department of Defense and unnamed “U.S. Government intelligence agencies”.

Podolak was hired to “oversee a strong team of more than 10 IRCM defense suppliers who will perform research studies and lead the transition of the team’s proposed CAPS (Commercial Airliner Protection System) technology to the airline industry.”

L-3 was also a key client for Stack’s software programming business. Stack helped develop a GPS-based Fight Management System for IEC, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of L-3.

L-3 was also investigated by the SEC for its role in the suspicious number of “put options” on United and American Airlines http://www.911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html , speculation that a company’s stock will fall, in the days before 9/11.

Indeed, former NSA official Wayne Madsen wrote http://www.opednews.com/populum/diarypage.php?did=9603 in September 2008 that, “A long-time L-3 Communications consultant for the National Security Agency (NSA) was, according to our source, one of the very few recipients of the live video stream that caught the first plane hitting the North Tower.”

“Other clients on the list such as DMC Stratex Networks and Sorrento Electronics also are defense contractors and probably a closer examination of these and other corporations on Stack’s client list will reveal more interesting details,” notes the blog.

The blog also highlights transponder flight tracking records http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wg1yujey_AI/S ... 6%2BPM.png of Stack’s plane which show that its last journey took place on August 6, 2009, and not on February 18 last week when the aircraft was slammed into the Echelon building.

One poster on the Prison Planet forum http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php ... t=next#new speculates, “This plane may still be in a hanger at GTU.”

Could Stack’s lightweight Piper Cherokee really have caused such drastic damage to the facade of the Echelon building when compared with other small planes that have crashed into buildings like that of New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle? http://www.life.com/image/72151087

The huge fireball reported by eyewitnesses could well have been as a result of extra fuel canisters Stack had loaded onto the plane to inflict maximum damage, but this has yet to be confirmed by authorities.

Intimate ties with defense contractors, not just through his software company, but on a personal level with L-3’s John Podolak will only serve to deepen the intrigue surrounding the motivation behind Stack’s attack on the IRS building, with scant details having emerged since the tragic incident last week.

Another startling contradiction comes in the form of Stack’s last words, which were reported by the media and apparently confirmed by audio from air traffic control tapes to be, “Thanks for your help, have a good day.”

However, audio taken from radio scanners who also recorded Stack’s last words is slightly different from that being forwarded as the official version. The second version of the audio, Stack’s final words are, “I’m definitely checking out, have a good day.”

A comparison of the two clips can be heard at this link. http://www.infowars.com/media/N2889D-KG ... wsClip.mp3

While one eyewitness described seeing no pilot in the cockpit, another told WeAreAustin.com http://weareaustin.com/content/news/story/?cid=51381 , “The pilot looked like he was in a comatose state; leaning back and going on in.”

Another interesting discrepancy to have emerged is the fact that Stack’s daughter told the Associated Press http://www.prisonplanet.com/joe-stacks- ... y-him.html that Stack’s suicide note did not sound like it was written by him.

“It’s not him. The letter itself sounds like it’s coming from a different person. It didn’t sound like it came from him,” Samantha Dawn Bell told the AP.

[Andrew.]

Andrew.
I agree with Gruts, besides this case is looking more interesting now.
Collateral Damage will always be Collateral Damage. You cannot force a person round to you or any viewpoint! People are caught (trapped) in their lives because they believe they are doing the right thing, they have been indoctrinated!

Yes I know, horses and water.

There was no Collateral Damage (persons) and it would not be possible for there to be Collateral Damage in this case. If you are in that building, you (or me)[whoever] are a part of the problem. Karma, just deserts. It's a lesson that all need to learn, but many will not.


Oh and if you believe in what Wayne Madsen, Alex Jones has to say there is not much point in debating this even from the point of veiw that I expressed at first (what if it was genuine) because your drunk as are most people on worthless news and never ask the right questions in their thinking? (not) to even help themselves. Horses and water.

[Disco_Destroyer]

Andrew.
I agree with Gruts, besides this case is looking more interesting now.
Collateral Damage will always be Collateral Damage. You cannot force a person round to you or any viewpoint! People are caught (trapped) in their lives because they believe they are doing the right thing, they have been indoctrinated!

Yes I know, horses and water.

There was no Collateral Damage (persons) and it would not be possible for there to be Collateral Damage in this case. If you are in that building, you (or me)[whoever] are a part of the problem. Karma, just deserts. It's a lesson that all need to learn, but many will not.


Oh and if you believe in what Wayne Madsen, Alex Jones has to say there is not much point in debating this even from the point of veiw that I expressed at first (what if it was genuine) because your drunk as are most people on worthless news and never ask the right questions in their thinking to even help themselves. Horses and water.

People are caught (trapped) in their lives because they believe they are doing the right thing, they have been indoctrinated!

As for your comments on who or what I believe then all I can say is surely you are on some quest, and I have nothing to add other than, look in the mirror from time to time. You will never become God on Earth and pass judgement, without being judged yourself

[Andrew.]

People are caught (trapped) in their lives because they believe they are doing the right thing, they have been indoctrinated!

As for your comments on who or what I believe then all I can say is surely you are on some quest, and I have nothing to add other than, look in the mirror from time to time. You will never become God on Earth and pass judgement, without being judged yourself

Yes I am on a quest, I do look in the mirror and still have more to learn ( how about you?) Nothinging less than Christ's example makes the mark and yes I dont mark my own card.

(edit)
We all are told (unless the body is very damaged) via In-tuition what is towards good, most do not follow that and are happy continuing to be bad, full of ‘self’ and confused by spoken thoughts . No excuses.