Vapour trails, contrails or chemtrails? Fact or fiction?

Mark Gobell · Post by **Mark Gobell** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:52 am

Glad you picked up on this fish.

My thoughts exactly.

The pictures of the massive volumes of thick black smoke rising high over east London on 11.12 reminded me of the pictures from Buncefield on 12.11

The TV narrative was underpinned by London's fear of terrorism, naturally.

Apparently the "empty warehouses" were due for demolition that very day too.

You have to wonder what was in those "empty warehouses" to cause such a huge "accidental" fire.

chrisc · Post by **chrisc** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:57 am

I think that there is so much disinformation linked with the term "chemtrails" that it's better not to use it, persistent contrails or high level aviation smog are the terms I tend to use.

It is clear that on some days contrails do end up covering the whole sky and form a haze and on other days this doesn't happen.

Clearly there is an relationship with climate as the BBC show on Global Dimming illustrated and there is an increase in humidity and increased air traffic and aircraft exahust will obviously contain some chemicals.

[GVideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9762623193]BBC[/GVideo]

This is an area of research that doesn't appear to have attracted much academic study and the best site I have found on the issue is www.contrails.nl:

The word Contrail stems from 'condensation' and 'trail'. Aviationsmog (that's what it really is) is caused by airtraffic at great heights. Each day, jetengines of airplanes dump vast amounts of water (ice), CO2, soot particles (condensation nuclei), aërosols and chemical substances. Airtraffic thus not only alters the properties of the higher regions of our troposphere but also all the regions below, right down to groundlevel. This extra layer of man-made high-altitude smog probably infuences weather, climate and the quality and quantity of the sun's radiation that reaches the surface of Earth ("global dimming."). Aviation-smog is responsible for more clouds, rain, drought, bigger hailstones (megacryometeors), a stronger greenhouse effect (global warming), and, maybe, even gives extra power to hurricanes. Still, aviation-smog does not get the scientific and political attention it deserves.

What I haven't found is any convincing evidence of is modified aircraft, secret fleets of aircraft spraying the planet and such like, though I have seen these claims on some "chemtrail" sites.

It appears to me that the "chemtrail" material has the same effect as no-planes / DEW type of disinformation: it makes it easy for people to dismiss the issue of high-level aircraft generated smog and it's effect on climate as being a topic for loons. Is it a coincidence that it's often (generally or almost always?) the same people pushing 9/11 disinformation that push dubious, un-proven, theories about "chemtrails"?

From a press release from a talk a couple of weeks ago in London:

James Lovelock wrote:current global warming is being partially offset by global dimming the two to three degrees of global cooling caused by aerosol particles in the atmosphere from man made pollution. These reflect sunlight and nucleate clouds that reflect even more sunlight.

Clearly some decent research, study and action is needed around the issue the effect of high-level aviation smog, pollution, persistent contrails and the effect on the climate. Who's interest is served by this issue not being addresses? The oil companies and the aviation industry.

This topic has been discussed on Truth Action -- see the "Chemtrails": No-Planes linked Disinfo? thread...

ishaar · Post by **ishaar** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:01 am

Uuuhh? persistant trails = no planes?

My spider sense is tingling.

John White · Post by **John White** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:34 am

Local news station confirms barium in chemtrails

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB-489l6MI[/youtube]

John White · Post by **John White** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:22 am

Recent Rense article on Chemtrails:

http://www.rense.com/general79/chem.htm

How do we start to pick the bones out of material like this?

That seems to me to be the real issue with spreading "Chem Trail Truth": getting together sufficiently concrete info that is campaignable instead of speculative

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:33 am

Strange Days, Strange Skies

Some background to chemtrails

http://imageevent.com/firesat/strangeda ... 4&x=0&p=14

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:07 am

Of course people will be uncomfortable about talking about chemtrails.
Once you realise, you find out that the air your breathing is purposefully tainted with heavy metals and toxins and that it causes illness its going to disturb you.
This process is akin to being experiemented on by scientists in a greenhouse lab. We are not told that it is happening and yet almost every day our atmosphere changes, we are robbed of at least 20% sunlight and are given flu like symptoms and are made to feel tired and irratble without our consent.
I have spoken to a few people about this who see what is happneing but are still in denial.
I even had one friend claim the contrail stops when the pilot of the plane stops revving up the engine. This is deliberate spraying.

Newspeak International · Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:27 pm

Pic taken from the Sainsburys carpark,Chafford Hundred in Essex(14 Oct)

Notice there are also natural clouds in this one for a change:

utopiated · Post by **utopiated** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:36 pm

John White wrote:Recent Rense article on Chemtrails:

How do we start to pick the bones out of material like this?

That seems to me to be the real issue with spreading "Chem Trail Truth": getting together sufficiently concrete info that is campaignable instead of speculative

Like 9/11 it's all there John... it's more a matter of how to present it and thru which channels.

In my opinion what we're missing with the aerosol issue compared to 9/11 truth is real insider witnesses or operatives. I've discussed this at length with others and we concluded that this one is so locked down that it must be a prime example of how top carry out a mass global black operation in total secret success.

The main reason 'they've' achieved this status is because they had their main visual scapegoat already in public consciousness. ie: CONtrails have been with us for decades. A simple yet obvious elongation of trails and spraying patterns relies on the contrail excuse even though it is absurd and fails dismally when you examine things with even the smallest cluster of re-search synapses brain skills.

The barium evidence is there for a start - although I personally think that is just one element amongst several others - there is no such thing as an answer or single theory as to what is going on and anyone that reckons they know is chatting from their anus.

Anyway - as i said , we need a few core whistleblowers to come forward. It's possible that this op is so compartmented AND merged with other similar operations [cloud seeding, UV screening, radar and satellite configuring etc etc] that even the military/CIA/alien pilots themselves know little about what they're doing. ON the other had it may well be that evidence is unobtainable because there actually are no planes as we see them... given the fact no-one catches these things taking off and landing [and we could add the failure of whistleblowers] it could be we're after a ghost project - literally. Contentious but also totally possible from the years I've spent looking into this area.

Any more ideas and images can be archived at chemtrailsuk website.

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:02 am

It's simple. Just look for a chemtrail as we know it pre the late Nineties. I have confidence you wont find a single example
This is entirely new in our skies
A while ago I relentlessly battled with a couple of anti-chemtrails guys on ATS and asked them to come up with the photographic proof
The best they came up with was a dogfight from WW2 and a mural from some aeronautic museum
The configurations in our skies are less than 10 years old
While we're used to them now, I guarantee it - you wont find a single example in an old photo

utopiated · Post by **utopiated** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm

ROTFL!

The classic "Look - WWII" pics "proof". That's been done 23 times.

Anyway - it was all pollution from those over-laden bombers/fighters on their way to fry civillians thanks to Bomber "Da BOMB" Harris.

rodin · Post by **rodin** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:06 am

John White wrote:I think its down to the simple fact that there is a void of real information, hence the only thing that can be grasped with chemtrails is that its all speculation. The fact that its photo evidence for them exisitng, and thats it, makes people feel insecure and uncomfortable either considering them, or being willing to talk to others about them: plus of course the very existance of Chemtrails indicates a massive operation for unknown purpose, and that is frightening

Of all the reasons for being sceptical about chemtrails this is the least supportable since it is beyond reasonable doubt such an operation is being conducted over a wide spectrum.

rodin · Post by **rodin** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:26 am

It might be worth asking the questions

1) How do the elite escape the negative consequences of chemtrail air pollution?
2) How are planes loaded with the stuff serviced and flown? By whom? How is secrecy maintained?
3) Do chemtrails come from passenger airliners, from military or unidentified aircraft, or both?

Some possible answers

1) The elite are elsewhere, forewarned or (unlikely IMO) immune. Effects are likely to subside within 24 hours (exept for water contamination etc - the elite drink only distilled (with clean mineral supplements) now anyway).
2) Cannot IMO be commercial airliners. Info would leak out. Civilians would see something untoward. Therefore we should be able to map observed flights v. official stats for aircraft.
3) See 2)

Number one priority would therefore seem to be to identify the aircraft being used. Are ground-based binoculars/telephoto lenses inadequate for this? Is there technology availble to us that can resolve aircraft @ operational height?

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:21 am

One of the establishment whores in Parliament suddenly wakes up and questions what's happening in the skies
This is extraordinary in that an MP is taking on board the knowledge of what's actually occurring and employing systems developed by the furthest out individuals

http://thisissouthdevon.co.uk/displayNo ... ebarsearch

"MP TO PROBE 'POISON CHEMTRAILS' CLAIM

11:00 - 01 December 2007

Totnes mp Anthony Steen is launching his own investigation into an international conspiracy theory following fears that South Devon is being poisoned by a toxic cocktail of chemicals being rained down from the skies.

Retired schoolteacher Christopher Cooper has appealed for help from the MP after claiming he has spotted numerous aircraft leaving 'chemtrails' - plumes of an unknown mixture of chemicals - in deliberate grid patterns across the skies over Torbay, Newton Abbot and Totnes.He is so concerned that he has spent £200 on building his own 'chemtrail buster' out of six foot long copper pipes laid out in a special matrix he claims helps disperse the chemicals above his Littlehempston home.

Now Mr Steen has said he plans to question defence and aviation experts over the 'chemtrails' theory.

And if he still has worries after that, he plans to put questions to Secretary of State for Defence Des Browne.

Mr Steen said: "I am making my own inquiries about these allegations because I need to find out whether they have any substance.

"I am making inquiries with a number of experts before putting anything to the Secretary of State."

He said he had not come across the 'chemtrail' concerns before and added: "I take every constituent's allegations and concerns seriously until proven otherwise.

"I always think they are right and what they are saying must be investigated.

"I take this very seriously. I will be making the appropriate inquiries and once I have done so I will decide how best to pursue the matter."

The 'chemtrail' conspiracy theory surfaced in the mid to late 1990s and claims that some trails left behind high altitude jet aircraft are different in appearance and quality from those of normal contrails, may be composed of harmful chemicals, and are being deliberately produced, and covered up by the government.

The reason why is unclear although suggestions have included secret efforts to control the weather - in particular global warming - biological warfare, a sophisticated radar system, some sort of mind control or even occult purposes.

Mr Cooper, who used to teach at the Rudolf Steiner School at Dartington until his retirement, wrote to Mr Steen expressing his concerns about 'the 'chemtrails' which criss cross the skies over the South Hams on many days, especially early in the morning'.

He warned the MP: "The 'chemtrails' stay in the sky for several hours and are placed there on a planned grid."

He said there had been reports of such trails in other parts of the UK as well as Europe and the USA.

He has asked Mr Steen to question the Ministry of Defence and ask for a reason for the 'chemtrails', how much is such an operation costing taxpayers, what other government ministries are in the know and 'who authorised the campaign to drench the atmosphere with what appears to be toxic chemicals which may have a very adverse effect on the population's health'.

He said that websites claim the 'chemtrails' contain traces of barium salts, aluminium, sodium hydroxide, calcium, magnesium and 'even some radioactive thorium have been reported in the USA'."

I'm personally very proud of my 5 year standing cloud/chembuster, as no doubt Mr Sheen should be of his.
However these don't quite work so well unless you put smaller pieces of orgonite in the vicinity of all the mobile masts within your area

The original article over this material
http://educate-yourself.org/ct/goodbyects10jan02.shtml
I've sent this to Indymedia, who'll no doubt hide it soon

Dr Hemp · Post by **Dr Hemp** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:04 pm

He's our local MP - never imagined he was the type to champion chemtrails? He's been written to before about 9/11 and 7/7 and has never given a satisfactory reply.

Still credit where credit is due, not that I'll be voting for him next time.

Chris.
www.911truthtotnes.com

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:02 am

Dr Hemp wrote:He's our local MP - never imagined he was the type to champion chemtrails? He's been written to before about 9/11 and 7/7 and has never given a satisfactory reply.

Still credit where credit is due, not that I'll be voting for him next time.

Chris.
www.911truthtotnes.com

Well thanks Chris.
I don't know how this guy can separate one thing from another
But still he's gone for the most extreme viewpoint so should really be able to reconnect back
If I were in his constituency I'd be all over this guy, praising his cb, and questioning why he cant be all over the 911 and other falsehoods
I'd love him to death and push him to Brian Hawish attacks on the parliamentary process
You've got to treasure what you've got
This guy has gone to the lengths of making himself a Chembuster
This denotes a pretty different view of the world
Back it up
Is it possible that we could enlist the help of the so-called left on this
This same post has for once stuck in indymedia uk and not been hidden
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/387363.html
unlike other chemtrails posts

rodin · Post by **rodin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:26 am

Paul you made a chembuster? One of my cybermates swears by one he made. I have been skeptical about the efficacy of chemtrail buster since +ve results might be imagined or coincidental, and I could see no science to explain. What is you experience?

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:39 am

rodin wrote:Paul you made a chembuster? One of my cybermates swears by one he made. I have been skeptical about the efficacy of chemtrail buster since +ve results might be imagined or coincidental, and I could see no science to explain. What is you experience?

Since 2002. These are ineffective unless you towerbusted all the mobile phone masts or tetra masts within your area
This is the most singular thing you can do
Resin,metal shavings plus a quartz crystal
It's simple, cheap and needs to be secreted close by your neighbourhood masts

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:33 pm

This is awesome. Some sanity in local govt!

Pikey · Post by **Pikey** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:44 pm

Has the Totnes MP Mr Steen seen this?:-

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8655156407

Dr Hemp · Post by **Dr Hemp** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:38 am

paul wright wrote:
Dr Hemp wrote:He's our local MP - never imagined he was the type to champion chemtrails? He's been written to before about 9/11 and 7/7 and has never given a satisfactory reply.

Still credit where credit is due, not that I'll be voting for him next time.

Chris.
www.911truthtotnes.com
Well thanks Chris.
I don't know how this guy can separate one thing from another
But still he's gone for the most extreme viewpoint so should really be able to reconnect back
If I were in his constituency I'd be all over this guy, praising his cb, and questioning why he cant be all over the 911 and other falsehoods
I'd love him to death and push him to Brian Hawish attacks on the parliamentary process
You've got to treasure what you've got
This guy has gone to the lengths of making himself a Chembuster
This denotes a pretty different view of the world
Back it up
Is it possible that we could enlist the help of the so-called left on this
This same post has for once stuck in indymedia uk and not been hidden
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/12/387363.html
unlike other chemtrails posts

Trust me, Anthony Buffoon is an old school Tory MP and very much part of the Establishment. If you want to write a letter to him, and I'll sign it from my Totnes address, be my guest, but I don't have the time to do this. Would be laugh to see what the silly old fool has to say. And I still will not be voting for him!

Chris.

paul wright · Post by **paul wright** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:49 am

I'm sure Tory buffoons might be susceptible. Maybe I'll tackle Boris on this.The controlled buffoons are much more likely on this point than most of the controlled serious left

Dr Hemp · Post by **Dr Hemp** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:17 am

paul wright wrote:I'm sure Tory buffoons might be susceptible. Maybe I'll tackle Boris on this.The controlled buffoons are much more likely on this point than most of the controlled serious left

That is so true! And I'm sure as Tory buffoons go, Anthony is probably a very nice one. Yes, for those of us who remember the last Conservative administration, who'd have thought that Labour would turn out to be even more vile! It really is saying something. I saw Ken Clarke on Question Time and agreed with most of the things he was saying; most bizarre.

Like I said, I could never vote for Anthony Steen, as he is a Conservative, but I wish him well in his campaign to alert the world about chemtrails. Labour are c*nts, but don't forget that the Tories are too! Always have been and always will be.

ishaar · Post by **ishaar** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:01 pm

Labour are c*nts, but don't forget that the Tories are too! Always have been and always will be.

They are one and the same are they not? Why do people still refer to the various political factions as separate entities?

Mark Gobell · Post by **Mark Gobell** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:54 pm

ishaar wrote:They are one and the same are they not? Why do people still refer to the various political factions as separate entities?

Hurrah.

Why indeed.

Neurons savaged at a certain time of life.

Familial, social, formative influences.

An idea that once was. . . .they are different.

Letting go. It's so hard.

Facing what is denied.

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:26 pm

Why are all the chemtrails threads in "controversies" ???

I have just found that there are more Mps asking questions about the skies.

If it's useful to anyone, there at least two other British MPs who have demonstrated an awareness and have asked questions in Parliament:

1. Adrian Sanders (Lib, Torbay)
Question: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what action he is taking to reduce the amount of chemical trails from aircraft in UK airspace; and if he will make a statement.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... a.111303.h

2. Bob Spink (Con, Castle Point) (Sits on Select Committee on Science and Technology):
Question: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, what research his Department has (a) commissioned and (b) reviewed on the (i) chemical make-up and (ii) environmental impact of aircraft trails; and if he will make a statement.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 4c.79517.h

The answers were disappointingly hollow as you'll see if you visit the links, but every little helps folks. The last few years has been forcing an ever progressing limited hangout in places like Germany and even the US, but Britain has lagged behind in getting this onto the public agenda.

If you care about these criminal acts of environmental vandalism why not approach YOUR MP to sound them out. Don't expect instantaneous results. I'll never forget how long it took me to accept that something was very wrong up there, so you may need to sow a seed and return in a few months. This'll be especially relevant immediately after the next General Election, when you'll have up to five years to work on your representative!

Notice too, how the two characters above are pretty much diametrically opposed on many issues. You don't have to agree with them to make use of their position.

Here are some others who may (or may not) be interested already:

David Drew (Lab, Stroud)
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 8c.24397.h

Vincent Cable (Lib-Dem, Twickenham)
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 3e.80662.h

Michael Meacher (Lab, Oldham West & Royton)
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 3b.95769.h

Lynne Jones (Lab, Birmingham, Selly Oak)
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... b.136145.h

I'd like to know more about this guy too:

QUOTE
Colin Challen (Lab, Morley & Rothwell): On the inclusion of aviation in the European emissions trading scheme, does my hon. Friend agree that it will be quite wrong of the EU and the Government not to include the impact of radiative forcing when calculating the impact of aviation, when there is eventually trading within the scheme, as its impact could be up to four times greater than is currently calculated?

Patrick Hall (Lab, Bedford): I think that my hon. Friend is referring to contrails and that sort of thing.

Colin Challen: All that sort of thing.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/? ... -08a.260.3

Classic!

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:47 pm

I keep sending links of chemtrails to the Tv news programs and the newspapers. Also to George Galloway, John Cruddas, Glenda Jackson, and Claire Short. Also I send to radio stations hoping they will also mention them, or at least throw them out to the listeners to see what they think. All to no Avail.

People seem so oblivious to these trails in our skies, they are just so unconscious to what is up there above their heads.

I have mentioned them to some of my neighbours, they seem to think they are CLOUDS (DOH) as if clouds come in straight lines, and criss crosses across the sky, some people are so thick

Dr Hemp · Post by **Dr Hemp** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:22 pm

ishaar wrote:
They are one and the same are they not? Why do people still refer to the various political factions as separate entities?

Absolutely, I agree.

Newspeak International · Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:21 pm

Pikey wrote:Has the Totnes MP Mr Steen seen this?:-

[GVideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8655156407[/GVideo]

Yes,this is an excellent introduction into the phenomenon known as Chemtrails,and the HAARP weather warfare system.

DVD copies available, if interested drop me a PM.

Emmanuel · Post by **Emmanuel** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:40 am

Close up shots of chemtrail planes and CIA surveillance agents wathcing orgone gifters. This thing is no joke. Death towers are being installed every and we wonder why theres so much illness and toxicitity today.

http://youtube.com/user/duxburyrealestate

9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom

Vapour trails, contrails or chemtrails? Fact or fiction?

Persistent contrails and aviation smog

Strange Days, Strange Skies

Totnes MP questions and fights chemtrails phenomenon