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The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax
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thought criminal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.

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look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see you're making the assumption that if there were planes, there would have been no passengers. What's the basis for this assumption? What's your theory for what happened to the missing passengers? Were their families all in on the coverup too?

Incidentally there were bits of debris that appear to have landed in the street, and on the top of WTC5, just fragments of fuselage and landing gear and the remains of an engine, which would have had to have been planted if no plane was involved, which further complicates things.

You still utterly fail to explain how the entirety of lower Manhattan was deceived/silenced/mind controlled into believing that TV trumps what they saw and heard in person, and how ALL media, including independent amateur video, was controlled by TPTB.

So, no I don't think it really is that simple, sorry, and that's without even commenting on the quality of your 'evidence' for fakery.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.

Just listen to yourself!
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thought criminal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.

Just listen to yourself!


You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!

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look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!

What is red and invisible?

No tomatoes.
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thought criminal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!

What is red and invisible?

No tomatoes.


Answer the question you troll.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.

Just listen to yourself!


You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!


The only thing wrong with it is they didn't escape radar, so where does that leave you?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.

Just listen to yourself!


You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!


The only thing wrong with it is they didn't escape radar, so where does that leave you?


You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?

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EmptyBee
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:

You need to listen to me. What is wrong with the above statement? How did they know that the 'plane' would not have crashed into the street? There were firemen there who could have extinguished the fires and discovered HEY PRESTO! NO PASSENGERS!!


I'm not convinced that the 'no passengers' angle has any validity.

There is a necessity for planes to strike the buildings if the controlled demolition hypothesis is to be true, because without the plane impacts, the spectacle of the collapses could not have been explained, in much the same way as if the hijackers/patsies had been arrested, they could not have been alleged to have flown the planes.

So there IS a technical problem to overcome, assuming that the collapse of the Twin Towers is an essential part of the psy-op, that planes had to hit the buildings. What does that require? Some kind of pretty much infallible guidance system to ensure that the planes strike their targets. Preferably something more reliable than a mind-controlled patsy who believes he's dying for Allah.

I don't know what the answer is to that question, but I do know that the planes performed some pretty impressive maneuvers at high speed, maneuvers other pilots have had difficulty reproducing in simulations. Given the sophistication of the technology for guided aircraft and missiles - Predator drones, Global Hawk etc, it doesn't seem too far fetched to imagine a remote guidance system that could have reliably pulled off the attacks.

I can't prove it though, it's just a strong possibility. At the end of the day I have to say I still don't know for sure what happened, so I'm left looking for the most probable explanation that involves the least number of assumptions. I've seen enough evidence to rule out independent terrorists foiling the US Air defence. I've also yet to see any evidence that makes me suspect for a moment that there's any validity to NPT.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
Answer the question you troll.

That is your answer but you don't have the germs in your head to understand it.

It is you who says there were no planes.

And you who now claims that there were no passengers on the planes which erstwhile did not exist.

So, what if the planes were full of passengers? Duh!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
Answer the question you troll.

That is your answer but you don't have the germs in your head to understand it.

It is you who says there were no planes.

And you who now claims that there were no passengers on the planes which erstwhile did not exist.

So, what if the planes were full of passengers? Duh!


I am wording a question in such a way that endeavours to tap into your warped reality. You are sidestepping the question.

Just be a good little boy and answer the question.

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Banish
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not convinced that the 'no passengers' angle has any validity.


http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA11.victims.htm l
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.htm l
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua175.victims.ht ml
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/ua93.victims.htm l

http://stevemorse.org/ssdi/ssdi.html

Name and State (where available) and Date of Death = 11/9/2001

Tell me how many you find!!
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Banish
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
is because if they had used real planes there was always the potential that much of the planes debris may have landed in the street revealing no pasengers on board. Also, using no planes escaped radar and the potentiality of being shot down.

It really is this simple.


I have raised this argument many times. What if either of the "planes" had missed their targets altogether and landed downtown Manhattan? These were supposedly n00b pilots after all. How did they even find their targets mid way from Boston to LA; from 35,000ft without naviational aid? They just looked out the window? And after leaving their "Flight Instructions in Arabic" in the rented car, beside their Quran. Possibly the two most important things a fundamentalist muslim suicide pilot would need.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: the no planes theory only divides the movement Reply with quote

Thermite charges
The bbc reporting wtc 7 collapsing before it actually did
Molten metal in the footprints of all three buildings
William Rodriguez, wtc janitor who heard and saw numerous explosions in the wtc basement levels
The removal of the steel beams and other debris after the collapse from a crime scene
The very recent leaking of the wtc blueprints by a 9/11 whistleblower, showing the FEMA report seriously misrepresented the design and construction of the towers core columns
Ejection of steel beams and other debris hundreds of feet from the towers
Whistleblower Kevin Ryan speaking out about wtc collapse
Morgan Reynolds speaking out about 9/11
Ray McGovern, ex CIA head, speaking out about 9/11
The fact that the government had already written out the name of the 19 hijackers before the 3rd plane had hit pentagon
The near symmetrical collapse of wtc 7
Numerous accounts of explosions, squibs and explosions
The now thoroughly debunked 9/11 commissions report
The idea that small isolated 250 degree fires could bring down three buildings for the first time in history

These are a just a few of the arguments we could use for government complicity in the September 11th attacks, and each of these points can be supported by scientific evidence and physics (law of conservation)
However, the no planes theory, along with the mini nukes hypothesis, is nothing more than a straw man argument, turning many respectable and rational people away from our group. If we want to continue our good work as a international body to call for a real, non-politically objective report on the attacks, we have to focus on the most important parts of our evidence, in my own personal opinion the evidence for a controlled demolition of the three buildings.
We should also look at these straw man arguments as consequences of how big 9/11 truth has become, as we have now reached the point where there are hundreds of small hypotheses and theories debated and debunked amongst 9/11 truthers internationally, but when put together, only create growing evidence for either horrific incompetence by government officials on 9/11, or complicity in the 9/11 attacks by small corporate interest groups in the government
Thanks,
Fellow 9/11 truther

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:

I am wording a question in such a way that endeavours to tap into your warped reality. You are sidestepping the question.

Just be a good little boy and answer the question.


Why should he answer a question based on an unproven premise?

What you seem to be trying to argue is that some conspiracy involving planes would have been more complex, unreliable or liable to exposure than your contradictory, counterfactual and incoherent no planes scenario.

It's essentially an argument that controlling pixels is easier than controlling real objects, and controlling people's perceptions with pixels is child's play, so use pixels! It's simplistic and nonsensical.
It ignores the fact that this event unfolded before thousands of people watching it as it happened, not on TV, and a number of them had video cameras to record what happened. And guess what? Their version matches the official version. Everyone who witnessed the attacks saw and heard planes.
So video fakery is out. So unless you are prepared to hypothesise the existence of Orbital Mind Control Lasers beaming images on to the retinas of the denizens of Manhattan you're back to square one in your attempt to explain how such an illusion could have been accomplished.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.


chek wrote:

Buildings don't heal - look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.


That is not an answer. How can you 'calculate it', Mr 'dark spoon'?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.


chek wrote:

Buildings don't heal - look at NIST's and other photos in a decent resolution to see what damage was actually caused.




Thanks for including my advice in your signature.
Maybe someone will heed it, and not rely just on your version of events.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

chek wrote:

Thanks for including my advice in your signature.
Maybe someone will heed it, and not rely just on your version of events.


Yeah, good old NIST. We can always count on them for honesty and accuracy and no LIES whatsoever.

Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, TC. I'll bite. Rolling Eyes

If they had wanted to use planes (which I understand you think they didn't), why would they not want any passengers in it?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:
chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.


That is not an answer. How can you 'calculate it', Mr 'dark spoon'?


When all's said and done, we're talking physical events affecting physical structures.

ALL the structures involved, from the steel sparred wings of the planes to the panes of glass and the columns in the buildings have physical properties and those properties can be calculated.

What's so hard to understand about that, Mr. wooden spoon?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig W wrote:
OK, TC. I'll bite. Rolling Eyes

If they had wanted to use planes (which I understand you think they didn't), why would they not want any passengers in it?


Isn't that obvious?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
chek wrote:
thought criminal wrote:
You certainly haven't escaped mine. Chek, how could they be sure that the plane would not have broke up into the street?


Usually when working out a plan, most people would calculate it.

Previously, Snowygrouch basically worked out the crash forces involved on the back of a fag packet.

I think we can assume the real plotters planned all aspects of the operation with at least as much sophistication as that.


That is not an answer. How can you 'calculate it', Mr 'dark spoon'?


When all's said and done, we're talking physical events affecting physical structures.

ALL the structures involved, from the steel sparred wings of the planes to the panes of glass and the columns in the buildings have physical properties and those properties can be calculated.

What's so hard to understand about that, Mr. wooden spoon?


Are you well known in the Irish 9/11 Truth circles? I take it you attend all the meetings that take place there considering you are pushing the controlled demolition planes hitting towers fairytale? You must be one of the main organisers. Or do you just come on here to push the merits of NIST photographic evidence?

I am out of here for the evening.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:

I am out of here for the evening.


Wouldn't it be like, really weird, if all your new friends suddenly also stopped posting until you got back?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

thought criminal wrote:

I am out of here for the evening.

chek wrote:
Wouldn't it be like, really weird, if all your new friends suddenly also stopped posting until you got back?

Funny how so many people are thinking alike, here.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

flamesong wrote:
thought criminal wrote:

I am out of here for the evening.

chek wrote:
Wouldn't it be like, really weird, if all your new friends suddenly also stopped posting until you got back?

Funny how so many people are thinking alike, here.


Heh - and apparently we're also easily fooled by holograms and whatnot Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: The main reason No Planes were used in the 9/11 hoax Reply with quote

For general consideration here's Gerard Holmgren's take, the article"Why They Didn't Use Planes":

http://www.911closeup.com/index.shtml?ID=71


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but they did use orbs
http://911foreknowledge.com/rayswhatzits.htm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Explain to me how the NPT stands up to the fact that alot of people must have taken pictures with their mobiles of the second impact
and every news channel on earth was watching

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject: Mobile pix? Reply with quote

Did they have camera-mobiles in 2001? Good point if so - perhaps someone wants to come forward with one of the many shots they 'must have' taken? Or perhaps there was no plane to take shots of.

The thing is stelios69, despite all the TV cameras, the limited amount of 'footage' that has been released to the public shows non-realistic planes doing impossible things.
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