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Does Alex Jones warp his editorial line to appease Zionists?
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alexsandie
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: DEAL WITH IT! Reply with quote

I've always had this suspicion that most people don't click on links posted and that the only way to get people to read stuff is to post it in full. So I'm copying something of Dunne's re the CIA fakes directly here. Maybe you will read this. I'm renaming this piece:

Deal with it!

by Fintan Dunne, Editor,
BreakForNews.com 4th August, 2005
with PsyOpNews.com & WagNews.blogspot.com

For the last three years we have been quietly investigating the cover-up of the 9/11 attacks. Ours has been a wide-ranging inquiry which paid special attention to those who claim to be already exposing the truth.

During this time we have interviewed many people with alternative views on who were the real perpetrators. All the while, we kept our own counsel. Much of the time we played it as if we were uncritically buying the lines being put out on various alternative media.

We have examined a great deal of evidence and methodically traced the methods and networks used to mislead us all. Now we present the first of our findings.

NO ROGUE GROUP

We published 'Wag The WTC' investigative articles on the 9/11 attacks --just 7 and 14 days after the event. We knew then, as did many others, that the real planners were not 'Al-Qaida'. That's the easy part. The challenge was to actually determine -rather than merely guess: who did carry out the attacks?

In uncovering those perpetrators, we felt that an investigation of the cover-up would be as much --if not more-- revealing than our examination of the attacks themselves.

Our analysis of the cover-up shows it requires, and has used, the official intelligence resources of more that one state. One of the ways of deflecting investigators from this grim reality has been to spin the facts to allege that a 'rogue group' within government carried out the attacks.

But we now state that the depth and multinational scope of the cover-up shows no mere rogue group was involved. The 9/11 attacks and cover-up have covert governmental support -deployed through an intelligence framework.

What will be the most startling aspect of our investigation for many people is the vast scale of governmental control of the 9/11 movement and alternative investigators and media. From websites to commentators; from analysts to political personages, this has given the cover-up team unprecedented control of alternative media perceptions.

In short, the government is running not only the 9/11 movement, but also controlling the 9/11 issue in the alternative media. It was relatively easy to do so, because they have controlled both mainstream and alternative media and politics increasingly over the last twenty years. This was just an extension of those operations.

INTERNET POLICE

Here's a quote from a recent article on the UK Guardian: "The Chinese government, employs an estimated 30,000 internet police, as part of a long-standing policy to control the web so that it can be used by businesses but not by political opponents." [Source]

Think the ideology and practice of the USA would be any different? Of course not. Just well cloaked under a veneer of free expression.

In the US, it's less a case of internet 'police' and more a question of Internet fake opposition, misdirection websites, front organizations, pseudo-activist groups and a host of professional blogging and web journalism liars, acting in concert to create an impenetrable fog.

These people are all over the Internet They are all over the 9/11 issue; all over the 'stolen' election of 2004; behind the psychological operations designed to inspire fear of earth changes, of global warming, of the Super-State and the so-called New World Order; all over the landscape of anti-corporate, anti-fascist expression on the Internet.

This army of information controllers is all over the 'free' information you are getting on the Internet. Time we opened our eyes to see them. It's not just the mainstream which is controlled. From the moment the Internet became prominent, a vast budget has been expended to control all the high-trafficked intersections on the information superhighway.

THE FAKE 'EXPOSING' OF 9/11

Many of these sites/assets were put in place long before 9/11. A key goal was to ensure that if some truth must come out, it will be a truth designed and controlled by intelligence agencies --with agency assets in a position to ensure misdirection and damage limitation.

To this end, an orgy of evidence [See Minority Report Part I] in the form of deliberately misleading 9/11 'clues', were designed into the 9/11 operation from the start --to give these assets prearranged talking points with which to fill their column inches and programming. This has served to confuse and confound.

All this activity rose to a crescendo around the time the Kerry presidential bid hit it's planned implosion in the 'stolen' election. [The stealing of which was carefully managed in the controlled alternative media as a psychological operation against the left.]

The hyping of the 9/11 issue up until the 'defeat' of Kerry was designed to max out activist interest in the issue, then bury it with the aid of general post-Kerry, left-wing political disillusion -against the backdrop of division in the 9/11 Movement itself.

Also part of a similar confounding exercise were the subsequent 9/11 Movement 'flame wars', as different assets attacked each other to undermine their collective credibility and disillusion ordinary grassroots 9/11 truth activists.

THE SMOKESCREEN

A persistent theme of the disinformation spread by these assets is to portray the machinations of this elite group acting through the CIA/NSA/ETC. as if they originate from somewhere other than the US security/intelligence apparatus.

Suspicion is directed instead onto the Israelis, the 'City of London', 'International Bankers', The Rockefellers, The Bildebergers, and most infamously, the ill-defined, so-called New World Order. Of course, some of these elements are complicit in certain events, but the aim is to downplay the U.S. establishment's guiding hand and the broad CFR/corporate support.

Some may be surprised by the range and scope of the misinformation sites we have detailed, and may even be disconsolate to see the sheer scale of the social and political control which their virtually unlimited budget can achieve.

All we can say is.... deal with it. We had to. It's better than us all flailing around in ignorance. And it explains why men and women of good heart have been getting nowhere.

Also:

Quote:
Note: We do not contend that everyone associated with these
websites are knowing intelligence operatives. Some have been
professionally manipulated, others merely misled. In any event
these are promoting the psyop agendas and disinformation
themes of the covert controllers. This is also not meant to
be a fully comprehensive listing of all the fake websites.
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Snowygrouch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone getting that NFB type smell??
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan's attempted debunking of the 7/7/ drill is based on obfuscation, flawed logic and fools only those with a grasp of neither.

Assuming such a drill took place, regardless of who was involved 1000 or
1, probability dictated incredibly strongly that there must be a link between the drill and the events. It is so improbable that there is not a link between the drill and the real event that it may as well be beyond probability.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are all going to have to question everybody and everything. Fintan is right about that. But he is not immune to questioning either.

Who here thinks the 5 dancing Israelis is not a HUGE piece of hard evidence? If not, why not. I want to know.

Evidence. That's what a case is built on. We need to get a list of hard-tested evidence. Tested to destruction. Personalities we can discount - use useful links from anyone, but forget any persuasion. Become immune to it. Follow your own analysis of everything, best you can.

We don't KNOW that Visor was working for Verint, for example. We can DEDUCE it. We do KNOW that he went on air and said what he did - exact same times/stations/simultaneous bombs was his first story.

Later he changed his story (correct me if I am wrong) to include mainline stations. Anyone got a transcript of the interviews versus timeline he did on 7/7? When did he first mention mainline? I know he was quoted after 7/7 but did he give any live on air interviews after 7/7?

Verint did not control mainline so it cant be them, right? My guess is he got a call...

Power may well be deep MI whatever, but he may also have twigged that the UK is under threat from a criminal conspiracy and decided it was time to do something about it. The hairs were standing up on the back of his neck... which is now on the line. If he wants to keep it now he must play along.

Tube line. Security. Exercise. Over a thousand employees. Precisely.

The other evidence from 7/7 that is ON RECORD is the FAKING of witness statements from an impossible train. Just about everything else is conjecture and probablity (like how come one bus was diverted to Tavistock to be blown up?) but they can wriggle out of that in a crooked court. Witness statements about bombs under carriages can be attacked in court.

But faked witness statements?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snouchygrouch
Quote:
Anyone getting that NFB type smell??


I had to do a search to find out what/who NFB is. And I can only conclude you mean Notes from the Borderland. Right? And yes I have heard of Notes from the Borderland, but I don't talk in acronyms (it alienates too many people, especially new people to a website).

What are you going to accuse me of next? Being in the pay of Fintan Dunne?

By the way, snouchygrouch, I'm glad you removed that previous post (yes, I did read it). I was going to suggest that you had a little problem with 'anger management'.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that is my problem; nonsense pisses me off.

I do mean notes, the general "everyone is CIA except me" thing seems to be fairly parrallell.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FintanDunne wrote:
Also part of a similar confounding exercise were the subsequent 9/11 Movement 'flame wars', as different assets attacked each other to undermine their collective credibility and disillusion ordinary grassroots 9/11 truth activists.


Where exactly do you fit into this plan Fintan?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Dear Fintan... you spend an eternity gathering pics of people meeting each other then you put a little 'comic style' caption underneath suggesting a 'conspiracy' being plotted right in front of your eyes.

I guess since everyone in the world has met everyone else through freinds of freinds of freinds etc... you are suggesting a conspiracy involving 6 Billion' odd humans on this planet? I cant wait for your installment which involves my sinister involvement Twisted Evil
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FintanDunne
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Explicit clarification Reply with quote

Quote:
Snowygrouch: Yes that is my problem; nonsense pisses me off.

I do mean notes, the general "everyone is CIA except me" thing seems to be fairly parrallell.


That's clearly a complete misrepresentation of what I said.

When I published the CIA Fakes article on 4th August, 2005
I put the following above the list and also in case anybody
missed it I put it also below the list:

Quote:
Note: We do not contend that everyone associated with these
websites are knowing intelligence operatives.
Some have been
professionally manipulated, others merely misled. In any event
these are promoting the psyop agendas and disinformation
themes of the covert controllers. This is also not meant to
be a fully comprehensive listing of all the fake websites.
http://breakfornews.com/TheCIAInternetFakes.htm

Now that's pretty explicit itn't it.

Rather than repeat myself, let me quote what I said when
this issue came up in the BreakForNews.com Forum

Quote:
Like I said, I never named all those sites as CIA fronts. I said that for
whatever reason they were peddling CIA bs. I've been very careful
to make that quite clear all along.

But as evidence became decisive, I have named some as CIA.
For example:

Since then I have clearly said that Hopsicker-Keller-Edmonds are CIA.
Since then I have clearly said that Alex Jones is CIA.
Since then I have clearly said that Jimmy Walters is CIA.
Since then I have clearly said that Stephen E. Jones is CIA.

Since then I have implied that Dan Ellsberg is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Mohammed Atta & his father are CIA.
Since then I have implied that Scheuer and Ray McGovern are CIA.
Since then I have implied that David Cobb and William Rivers Pitt are CIA.

Since then I have implied that Cynthia McKinney is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Judith Miller and Patrick Fitzgerald are CIA.

Since then I have implied that Wayne Madsen is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Mark Zaid is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Bob Woodward is CIA.

Since then I have implied that Bev Harris is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Seymour Hersh is CIA.
Since then I have implied that WingTV is CIA.

Since then I have implied that Eric Hufschmid is CIA.
Since then I have implied that Bob Fitrakis is CIA.
Since then I have implied that David Ray Griffin is CIA.

{Thats enough -Ed.}
Errr.....
OK.

When I say "is CIA", I mean knowingly playing a direct role
in GlobIntel (CIA/NSA/MI6/KGB/etc) deception operations.

9/11 was a G8 GlobIntel operation.

http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11147


Quote:
FintanDunne wrote:
Also part of a similar confounding exercise were the subsequent 9/11 Movement 'flame wars', as different assets attacked each other to undermine their collective credibility and disillusion ordinary grassroots 9/11 truth activists.

Leiff: Where exactly do you fit into this plan Fintan?

Where I fit in is that I am saying to ordinary 9/11 activists not to become
disillusioned by the fake wars. This is a planned strategy to divide and
conquer and to fill bandwidth with meshed, confusing argument and
counterargument. I am explaining the game.

The Fakes are adopting a clever plan. Some are no planers and others
are no planers. Some of the planers are anti-Zionists and others are
dismissing the Zionist angle. There's a mess of deliberate division there.

1) Planer's, but say Jews Did it.
2) Planer's, but say Jew thing is a diversion.
3) No planer's, but say Jews Did it
4) No planer's, but say Jew thing is a diversion.

Ok, now add in the Space Beams issue and you can cut the thing up NINE ways.

These people are not adopting these positions because of conviction.
They are doing it for confusion and division.

That's why prominent people like Nico Haupt or Morgan Stanley
seem to have suddenly gone uncharacteristically ga ga.

It's a game. I'm calling the whole thing a game.
And I'm saying the G8 GlobIntel boys are all over the 9/11 issue.
So you got to be aware of that.

And NOT get caught up emotionally.
Chill. Keep analysing. DON'T GIVE UP!
This is the crucial time in all the last five years.
Persist. Did you think it was gonna be easy?
It's not. But their five years of deception are OVER.

Their game is up.
Ordinary 9/11 activists will win out.

That's where I fit in.

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Fallious
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the evidence....?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, for the first time I agree with you a little on this,Fintan, though I still find the obsessive list of accusations and implications a bit absurd and is of course actually much longer than the one you give here. In fact I was a little surprised to find on one list the late Joe Vialls who agreed with you on what if I remember rightly was the springboard for your CIA accusations - the sham Saddam thing.
No - you're right that the divisions and divisiveness is being fuelled. However I find that many of the sources and issues you identify have offered and still offer valuable information.
The way I look at it is that you pick and choose your information in the way that fits your intuition about and perception of things, don't adhere to any lines or be loyal to this or that person, celebrity after all - yuck - even underground celebrities - even yourself.
And then you go ahead and do what you have to -without worrying about this or that guy has bought or is promoting a CIA line

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan Dunne's list of so-called "CIA fakes" was just an advertising ploy to make himself stick out amongst internet 9/11 researchers. It was designed to create a bogus niche that would attract a new breed of 9/11 truthers ("the next level") by pandering to their need to feel superior to their fellow truthers by having some special insight or deeper knowledge about 9/11 and about some of the well-known names in the 9/11 truth movement. The same superior-than-thou arrogance is often displayed in the comments of regular visitors to his forum. Only the ploy backfired, as his infamous list was widely seen and dismissed by his peers as a vacuous accusation made without one iota of objective evidence to support it and therefore as a childish fit of professional jealousy from someone who was not becoming as well-known as they were. He even painted with the same ludicrous brush Alex Merklinger, the well-respected, former "Mysteries of the Mind" talk-show host, with whom he had worked. By becoming notorious over such backstabbing and by showing that he was willing to create division in the 9/11 truth movement with baseless accusations, he lost all intellectual credibility amongst his peers, although of course he would merely say that he had exposed them. LOL! Yeah, pull the other one, Mr Dunne, with your fake accusations.

His specious, convoluted explanations of why he put so many well-known people on this list - in particular, his ad hoc interpretations of Alex Jones' words - amount to delusional fantasy fuelled by wanting to discredit people he sees as competitors. They should not dupe anyone here into supposing that they display some unique, superior insight. The truth of the matter is that he is no more certain of who in the 9/11 truth movement is a CIA-planted disinformationist than anyone else. In reality, his criterion for someone being a "CIA fake" amounts merely to whether or not he agrees with their views. That's why the word "fake" slips off his lips so easily. Rather juvenile, really.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Explicit clarification Reply with quote

FintanDunne wrote:
1) Planer's, but say Jews Did it.
2) Planer's, but say Jew thing is a diversion.
3) No planer's, but say Jews Did it
4) No planer's, but say Jew thing is a diversion.

etc.

I'd guess the ratio of 'no planers' to rationalists is extremely low and with your subsequent introduction of the even less subscribed beam weapon factor you attempt to worry us with your nine-way split.

As becomes more apparent, most folk don't give any credance to these 'out-there' postulations. And quite frankly, whether or not it was a Zionist plot is not of much interest either - for the simple reason that all that any of these issues do is cause division. I attempted to draw a Venn diagram of all the splinters in the 9/11 Truth Movement and you are a long, long way short if you think that there are only nine possibilites. But their significance is not in their number, more that they seem to have one common purpose to draw support away from the core aims of the campaign.

There is a cornucopia of evidence to trash the official story without so much as considering any of this garbage - so any hard selling of it raises suspiscion.

Furthermore, anybody who seeks to make any political mileage by exploiting such schisms can do so by exaggerating them - as you seem to be doing.

And then, as if by Biblical prophecy:

FintanDunne wrote:
That's where I fit in.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll say it again. Forget the people. You will never know who's in and who's out. Collect the evidence - the stuff that can be proved. Don't jump on the latest 'revelation' - like this Obachike guy. Put it to one side, to be tested. Witness statements are notoriously poor quality evidence anyway. Evidence is what you can PROVE - or someone can prove to you is true - not what somebody tells you.

Never believe without proof positive.

Never believe a witness testimony. Use it as corroborating evidence, but get the dabs first.

If you/we follow these rules so much chaff will be blown away. What is left will be clear as day.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micpsi...
Quote:
Fintan Dunne's list of so-called "CIA fakes" was just an advertising ploy to make himself stick out amongst internet 9/11 researchers. It was designed to create a bogus niche that would attract a new breed of 9/11 truthers ("the next level") by pandering to their need to feel superior to their fellow truthers by having some special insight or deeper knowledge about 9/11 and about some of the well-known names in the 9/11 truth movement.


...absolutely! People like Fintan are just 'jumpers onto the gravy train'. He is so blatantly and quite obviously trying to carve out a nice little career for himself... or maybe even just craves some 'Alex Jones' style fame? Whichever it is, people like this do not care for the truth, they merely care about feeding their vanity. Fintan will not focus his 'research' (if you can call it that?) into one specific issue or area, rather, he strives to blanket as many issues as possible with the aim of baffling and covering up his lies.

I care deeply for this world, not just for the victims of 9/11, but for the future of us all. And I will not stand back and let fools like Fintan and Shayler get away with spreading **** without being challenged. And I suggest to all supporters of the truth movement... Stop following these false prophets and stick to the original aim of the movement...

TO GET A FULL AND INDEPENDANT INVESTIGATION INTO 9/11.

...Least we not forget! Neutral
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, we have to use our own analytical skills. There are certain aspects of Fintan Dunne that haven't been fully explained (and I don't mean the ridiculous questions about whether he is Irish or not! or why he mentioned about having a foreskin! isn't that bleedin obvious why that subject came up?!?!!)

The bottom line is, you study his evidence. Just as I expect people to study my evidence re Dunblane. Still, I have had my own doubts about Dunne. I listened to Kathy McMahon interviewing him and she asked him if he was jealous of Alex Jones. He didn't answer the question and she didn't pursue it. But as I had already decided that Alex Jones was a total nutcase, I decided that Dunne didn't answer the question because he thought it wasn't worth responding to. How could any rational thinking person be jealous of Alex Jones?!?!!

But Fintan Dunne might have another explanation or might simply think it is not worth responding to. Just like I don't care to respond to the likes of Bongo who suggests that I am either suffering from PMT or not getting any sex. It is just too pathetic to respond to.

Also, as there are clear signs now that AJ uses the same methods as Scientology to bring people into the 'fold' - which is a CULT - who, in their right mind, would trust Alex Jones?

Finally, Alex Jones is a money-making business. He takes your credit card details and once he's hooked you in, he keeps on taking your money (go on, examine your credit card debits - is AJ still taking your money?) When someone I know cancelled the credit card that AJ was using for their subscription, because AJ wasn't giving any notification that he was about to take their money, AJ plc wrote to them - only time AJ plc ever wrote to them - saying that they hadn't managed to get their sub. AJ is totally about money and control.

Believe me, this is even worse than disinfo. Not only have strenuous efforts been made to make sure that the truth about 9/11 doesn't come out, the 9/11 truth industry is a financial scam. Part of 'the plan' of 9/11 was to recoup money.

"Cottage industry" sounds just a little bit too genteel.

edited for typing mistakes!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kind of hyper-diddly paranoid twaddle on this thread seems to me to be designed to make us look like a bunch of nutters to any casual visitor to this site. The fact that some posters are debating this rubbish 'sensibly' frankly baffles me.

Ignore this c**p.

Keep taking 9/11 truth out to people wherever you go.

Stick to the simple unchallengeable issues (WTC7, controlled demolition of 1, 2 and 7 are the killer issues IMO).

The point is that it was an inside job....not what kind of inside job it was.

Anyone who wants to divide us with far flung theories is, knowingly or not, working against us while they do so. Sure, this forum is a place for some debating of such theories but the nonsense is completely taking over.

Our opponents, who work for the intelligence services and wish the keep 9/11 info under wraps know they are losing the game in the public domain. The message is getting out and spreading exponentially. Currently, we are doing well. Even when the BBC2 conspiracy files does a job on us next sunday....do not be downhearted....this is progress. they wouldn't be attacking us unless they felt they had to. This programme is legitimising 9/11 as a subject for debate in the public arena....whatever they say.

The security services are certainly attacking this site. There can be no doubt about this. They have stopped using the extremely aggressive evidence benders like Jay Ref and his mates (because we have moved them to the 'Critic's Corner). Now the tactic seems to have become....to deluge every thread with lame-brained random sloppy floppy wildly paranoid barely relevant dribbling rubbish. I am not attacking every poster as I have been accused of going off-topic myself at times but there is so much of this stuff here now that we need to start ignoring rubbish (which, of course, I am not doing now) and, as was said so often before, stop feeding the trolls.

Of course the big problem for the moderators in dealing with this tactic is that the people who attack this site can do so in groups, feeding each other with oblique masturbatory pass-the parcel wobbledygook....and it is rather difficult to tell who is doing it on purpose.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Sandstorm is Over Reply with quote

Quote:
Micpsi: Fintan Dunne's list of so-called "CIA fakes" was just
an advertising ploy to make himself stick out amongst internet 9/11 researchers.

That spin doesn't hold water I'm afraid. The moment we outed the
CIA Fakes, every single one of them - dropped BFN off their Links.
Traffic to the site halved immediately. None of them ever again
linked to my subsequent investigative articles --which they had
previously been carrying. etc. etc.

It was clear that it was going to affect us, and I knew we were ahead
of the game and our analysis would be hard to accept, but I had no
choice. It's called integrity. And as I expected, over time people
slowly caught on, and now there are hundreds of members on the
BreakforNews Forum and they get it too.

But keep attacking the man, not the argument.

In case people are wondering about the 'foreskin' references, the way
they tried to deflect my sound arguments was with a whispering campaign
saying "Fintan Dunne is a Jew, don't listen to him"!

Eventually I had enough with that and dealt with it for good:

Quote:
Is Fintan Dunne Jewish?
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260

But, like I say, keep attacking the man. Doesn't bother me.

Just shows that strength of the argument. Notice they are careful not
to tackle the specifics of the points I am making. Just attacking the
man and making generalized dismissals.

They've been throwing sand in your eyes for five years folks!

It's how the 9/11 movement has been prevented from developing
coherence and getting traction. An essential part of the cover-up.
But it's being blown as more people catch on. Which is good.

But best of all, the clear presence of a vast intelligence deception
operation in relation to 9/11 is one of the best pieces of evidence
we have that all is not right! Didn't think of that did they? Smile

And boy does that worry them. Wink

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Bongo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ignore this c**p.

Keep taking 9/11 truth out to people wherever you go.

Stick to the simple unchallengeable issues (WTC7, controlled demolition of 1, 2 and 7 are the killer issues IMO).

The point is that it was an inside job....not what kind of inside job it was.

...kbo234, I couldn't have put it better myself. Wink

... Fintan, you could learn a great deal from those of us who take a simplistic approach. Quite honestly, you are nowhere nearly qualified enough to untangle the global and infinately complex geo-political web that does and always will exist... if indeed there is even a man alive who is capable of understanding even a microscopic snapshot of it?

The point is, as far as the basic premise that the OCT is bunk, we have enough bait to catch our fish. We just don't need muddying of the water to the point where we can't find it!

Jeesh! Honest first impressions from viewing your web site... Egotistical... Self Obsessive... need I say more.
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FintanDunne
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Devil in the Detail Reply with quote

Quote:
But keep attacking the man, not the argument.

Which is exactly what you continue to do.

Quote:
Stick to the simple unchallengeable issues (WTC7, controlled demolition
of 1, 2 and 7 are the killer issues IMO).

I watched this "Controlled Demolition" meme being rolled out from the
beginning. I even bought into it to a degree in my first second article on
the 9/11 issue --published on 4th October 2001, just over a couple of
weeks after the event, so forgive me if I was a bit wet behind the ears.
But I'm a quick learner.

Quote:
WAG THE WTC II: THE BLOCKBUSTER
PART II OF EXPOSING THE WTC BOMB PLOT
by Fintan Dunne, Research Kathy McMahon - 4th October 2001

What you will discover here will shatter any illusions you have about the
reasons behind the World Trade Center attack. This 'Wag the WTC'
blockbuster is making a pile of money for some.

FACT: The contractor whose people were the first on the WTC collapse
scene --to cart away the rubble that remains-- is the same contractor who
demolished and hauled away the shell of the bombed Oklahoma City
Murrah building. The name of the contractor is Controlled Demolition!
Their WTC cleanup contract is worth over $7 Billion. Are you getting the picture?
http://www.breakfornews.com/wag/the_blockbuster.htm


You see, you couldn't avoid the meme. I mean the company overseeing
the site was called Controlled Demolition.

But then I got to thinking, as you do, and wondering why they were being
so in your face with this controlled demolition issue. They could surely have
picked some other company. Or left them out of it until later. But they
were on the scene from the get go. It was so inviting. Too predictable.
But what could the motive be?

The key is in the Kennedy assassination. They pulled the same clever
stunt there you see. Remember the infamous "magic bullet"? And all the
concentration on the question of how many shots there were; and could
Oswald have fired the number of shots in the time available; and what
the sound analysis of the scene and the echoes told us about the number
and direction of the shots; and those complicated diagrams of angles and
trajectories; and..., and..., and..... With technical experts weighing in
and contradicting each other with deep technical anlaysis. With scientific
dispute and microscopic examination of all this detail......

Does it all remind you of anything? It's the same as the endless
arguments over the controlled demolition, the size of the dust cloud,
the angle of the beams, the strength of the center columns. And on and on.

What is happending in each case is that endless bandwidth is being eaten
up in an area where eventually teams of disputing experts with letters
after their names are dominating the issue. And the average person is
just as confused as ever they were in the beginning.

It's about bandwidth. It's about using up valuable energy in these
minutiae. It's about heading the issue into an area where the average
person's eyes begin to glaze over, and the question of whether it was an
inside job, or not comes down to the size of the dust particles.

One says the dust particles were too small
and this other guy says they weren't.

And what about the broader political context? What about the who benefitted?
What about the raft of other issues which have to compete with the
focus on the complex detail of controlled demolition?

I'm not saying ignore the issue of demolition altogether. But I am saying
it may start out looking promising and end up that you are fighting on
ground where your chances are 50-50 of convincing people.

Whereas with a much broader sweep of evidence you could be getting
to an 80-20 chance of painting a convincing picture.

So maybe there was a very good reason they shoved the controlled
demolition in your face, and why you are encouraged to push it as
the best evidence of an inside job.

The same, by the way, applies to the issue of the failure to intercept
the 'hijacked' planes on the day. Contentious arguments about which
planes could have been deployed and where they could have taken off
from, and their speed may well trap you into failing to realise there is
another argument that is not contentious at all.

It's fact.

FACT: Bill Clinton cut the air defense plane count over the US in the years
leading up to 9/11, from hundreds of planes to only a little more than a score.

Otherwise it would have been impossible to carry out the attacks without
interception. Repeat: impossible. And no amount of slow flying, or
prearranged air defense exercises would solve that.

Bet you haven't heard that discussed much.

In both the case of the Controlled Demolition and
the fighter response, the old adage is true.

The devil is in the detail.

Detail that grabs your focus.
And makes you miss compelling arguments.

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Bongo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fintan, With respect to air defence spending, and which USAF fighter aircraft could have intercepted, IMO is a question for a new investigation.
(since the 9/11 commission report failed to adequately answer the issue.)

In any event, SCATANA regulations were, before and during 9/11, and still are in full force... the only difference was that for the first time in Us history, the president was not in control of US air defence, Dick Cheney was!

Fact?

I think you need a rest from all the speculation you are doing!

Rolling Eyes
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Bonko
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo wrote:
Fintan, With respect to air defence spending, and which USAF fighter aircraft could have intercepted, IMO is a question for a new investigation.
(since the 9/11 commission report failed to adequately answer the issue.)


The point is, theres a defaning silence on these kinds of facts, because you might start pondering
the possibility that those nasty Neo-con's did not pull it off by thier lonesome selves.

Bongo wrote:

In any event, SCATANA regulations were, before and during 9/11, and still are in full force... the only difference was that for the first time in Us history, the president was not in control of US air defence, Dick Cheney was!


Oh, wow.... Shocked

Back to the Cheney and Bush crowd again....
...how compartmentalised. Rolling Eyes
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alexsandie
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On one Alex Jones interview (with Jeff Rense I think) a guy called in to ask why it was men over a certain age (about 50 I think he said) who had bought into this whole 'we are doomed' conspiracy stuff. Whether this caller believed we hadn't been told the truth about 9/11 I don't know. But I was interested in his question and I was curious as to how Jones and Rense would tackle the subject. But you guessed it. Jones simply cut him off.

Now that made me wonder if perhaps the "CIA fakes" who were waiting in the wings knew who their 'target market' was going to be, ie. men over a certain age (probably over 40s I would say - and I'm referring to the States; I'm not sure that the Brits were factored into the 9/11 Truth Movement at the outset). The younger guys would probably either ignore the subject (the demands of youth preoccupying them) or 'sign up' to go to war. So what to do about the older guys???? What a fantastic script they came up with. Paralyse you with fear, and befuddle your mind. To repeat what Bonko said earlier in this thread:

Quote:
Back on the subject of getting the TRUTH out there, wouldn't it do us all a great service if the representatives of these issues to mainstream media stuck to researching and looked for solutions, instead of spending all of there time developing DVD+TV material that does nothing but destroy the credibility of legitimate people with unanswered questions.

I think a lot of people are now learning the harsh consequences of leaving it up to the 'authority' to voice our opinions, especially when putting your faith in people like AJ, or Icke, or any of these nutcases who allegedly represent the side of truth.


and also what Fintan said:

Quote:
What is happending in each case is that endless bandwidth is being eaten up in an area where eventually teams of disputing experts with letters after their names are dominating the issue. And the average person is just as confused as ever they were in the beginning.

It's about bandwidth. It's about using up valuable energy in these
minutiae. It's about heading the issue into an area where the average
person's eyes begin to glaze over, and the question of whether it was an
inside job, or not comes down to the size of the dust particles.


When the 9/11 Truth Movement implodes, remember the above two points. And find a way to continue fighting for the truth. That is the point of this thread, which I can see certain people do not understand.
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scar
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexsandie wrote:
Paralyse you with fear, and befuddle your mind.


alexsandie wrote:
When the 9/11 Truth Movement implodes.


alexsandie wrote:
That is the point of this thread, which I can see certain people do not understand.


Dont worry I 'got it'.

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alexsandie
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You missed out this bit:

Quote:
And find a way to continue fighting for the truth.
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scar
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Why do you need to follow Fintan alexsandie? Reply with quote

Quote:
It's about using up valuable energy in these
minutiae. It's about heading the issue into an area where the average
person's eyes begin to glaze over.


It was quickly evident to me when it appeared that the whole CIA fakes thing was evidence free speculation derived from sour grapes/ego and a need for hits/notoriety. Little more.
A complete waste of time and 'valuable energy'.

Toodlepip.

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uselesseater
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This summs the quality of Dunnes analysis and that of his cheerleaders:

But then I got to thinking, as you do, and wondering why they were being
so in your face with this controlled demolition issue. They could surely have
picked some other company. Or left them out of it until later. But they
were on the scene from the get go. It was so inviting. Too predictable.
But what could the motive be?


This is exactly the kind of flaky rubbish that the media likes to portray as the stuff of 9/11 conspiracy loons. Completely paranoid and lacking in any form of critical analysis. Seems like Dunne couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.

And the evidence for AJ being CIA? He cut somone off when they asked a banal question on his radio show and he takes subscriptions! Shock. Conclusive proof there then.

He takes your credit card details and once he's hooked you in, he keeps on taking your money (go on, examine your credit card debits - is AJ still taking your money?)

Yes it's called subscribing. Rolling Eyes

I would go along with whoever said that these attempts are just another angle of attack from the same place as the Jay Reffers and before you say anything that is a Judgement, not a statement of fact - could be wrong. In Fintan Dunnes world however this would be considered proof beyond all doubt.

Mods: We need to get a handle on this stuff soon unless you're happy for us to look like the fruitcakes the media likes to paint us as. Use your discretion and bend the rules if necessary I say.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI pms exchanged with alexsandie

Quote:
From: Pikey
To: alexsandie
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:38 pm
Subject: Re: Dunblane & 911 truth thread
Quote:
No Pikey, why not try working backwards, and see where all this started? And as for your comments about 'newbies' to 9/11, look, you even have a joiner from Fallin posting here! (mr malcks) If he can understand 9/11 (and he is the one who was keen to post about his humble origins - and by the way, the old mining villages on the outskirts of Stirling were Thomas Hamilton's recruiting ground of course), then I'm sure others in your discerning audience can understand the links between all these false flag operations. Treat your readers with respect. They either understand all of this or they don't.


Sandra just trying to help. If you have any evidence or proof of Dunblane then produce it on your website , I suspect you have none other than key questions which have no responses.

With 911 the official version breaks the laws of science and rationality.
Thats why I believe its the key and we have a better chance of cracking that than Dunblane. If the battle of 911 truth is won I have no doubt all the unravelling including Dunblane truth will be uncovered.

When did this all start.......it goes back a few thousand years......trace the history of secret societies.......knowledge is power. The winners always write the history books so I'm talking the truth, the unofficial history.

I see that the insults usual troll/shill are now coming, re: "PMT" and bringing the forum into disrepute.

The enemy will be in delight of the distraction/taking the eye off the ball of 911 truth that you are creating.

Peace & truth


Quote:
From: alexsandie
To: Pikey
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: Dunblane & 911 truth thread
The enemy will be in delight of the distraction/taking the eye off the ball of 911 truth that you are creating.

That I AM CREATING? You shill.


Snowygrowth maybe right I've been insulted, and lied about here on a few occasions, but being called a "shill" was the first and hopefully last!

Keep focused on the mission comrades Salute

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pikey's PM:
Quote:
Sandra just trying to help. If you have any evidence or proof of Dunblane then produce it on your website , I suspect you have none other than key questions which have no responses.

With 911 the official version breaks the laws of science and rationality.
Thats why I believe its the key and we have a better chance of cracking that than Dunblane. If the battle of 911 truth is won I have no doubt all the unravelling including Dunblane truth will be uncovered.

When did this all start.......it goes back a few thousand years......trace the history of secret societies.......knowledge is power. The winners always write the history books so I'm talking the truth, the unofficial history.

I see that the insults usual troll/shill are now coming, re: "PMT" and bringing the forum into disrepute.

The enemy will be in delight of the distraction/taking the eye off the ball of 911 truth that you are creating.


Yes Pikey, I found your PM to me quite offensive. You clearly hadn't even looked at my website or you would have seen that I have plenty of evidence and proof re the Dunblane cover-up (not just questions), so I really did wonder why you sent me that PM. And of course, there it was in the last line, with your accusation that I PERSONALLY was creating a distraction that the enemy would love. Of course I could have set out a reply that pointed you to my website (which was already in the text of the thread) so I questioned your agenda for sending me that PM and I decided it wasn't worthy of a considered reply.

Bongo has gone even further than accusing me of having PMT, hasn't he? It is that kind of remark that brings forums like this into disrepute, not someone mentioning about another government cover-up. Did you PM Bongo at the time and express your concerns about him bringing the forum into disrepute, or did you just target me? It seems to me that you're happy to see every other type of govt cover-up discussed here, but you wanted to silence me on the subject of Dunblane. Hmmmmm, interesting. Let me just say, that made me very suspicious about you.

And I think you posting up a PRIVATE message here on this board makes me question you even more Pikey. At least I called you a shill in private. I didn't attempt to bring the Forum into disrepute by insulting you publicly.
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Bonko
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note: Arguments which rely on an individuals personality and attacking such persons, serve no purpose other than to take our attention away from what really matters.

Fintan has been investigating the activities of these Internet fakes since day one, he has posted volumes of material pinpointing the countless, I repeat, countless "coincidencidental" connections between these guys and the perps of 9/11. Keep in mind he has not once based any of his arguments on any personal dislikes of these individuals.

No need to get offended guys, this is just business folks, the buisiness of real investigation.

Don't let the personalities fool you, and don't let people waste your time drawing you into personal vendetas.

Notice how some of the posters here have painstakingly tried to avoid dealing with any of the substantive issues, and instead focused on attacking the personality.... Jeez, that musta been part of the curiculum huh guys??

While you guys keep feuling petty fueds, the evidence is stacked in our favour..... keep on diggin them holes Laughing
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