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Nov06 Did polonium spy Litvinenko reveal Putin false flags?
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Craig W
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that characteristically forthright reply, Pincher.

At the risk of incurring your ire, could I ask in your view:

What was the method of administering the Thalium?

What, if anything, did the Thalium have to do with the three dense round objects?

How do you think these objects got in to L's intestines (if indeed they existed at all)?

Why the switch from Thalium to Polonium in the official story if the cause of death was in fact Thalium?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:

1. On the 1st of November last Litvinenko meets Mario Scaramella in the early afternoon (at the latter's request) in the ITSU Sushi Bar. Litvinenko reports Scaramella as being agitated and showing him an FSB 'death list' which could have been emailed.



Look Pincher, i understand that you always see things through blinkers.

Please explain why Sacaramella ate NOTHING during his meal at the sushi restaurant in picadilly?

Because prior to going to the restaurant he publically stated he had gone to Pizza Hut and ate there.

I know what i am talking about, u will never see any Italian eating in Pizza Hut especially when he has just flown in fom Naples. And only the most obese food addict would EAT before he goes to a restaurant.

The fact is simple, he poisoned Litvenenko acting on the orders of Berezovsky and job done he flew back to Europe

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig W wrote:
Thanks for that characteristically forthright reply, Pincher.

At the risk of incurring your ire, could I ask in your view:

What was the method of administering the Thalium?

What, if anything, did the Thalium have to do with the three dense round objects?

How do you think these objects got in to L's intestines (if indeed they existed at all)?

Why the switch from Thalium to Polonium in the official story if the cause of death was in fact Thalium?


1) Apologies if I appear forthright - it's intentional!

2) IF we accept that Litvinenko really did test positive for Thalium 210 poisoning (and that is a really big IF - remember that Professor Tony Henry was 'retired' from the case after first making the claim about a positive Thalium test conducted on the 16th November at Guys Hospital Toxicology Unit, before inexplicably changing tack and saying it was possibly RADIOACTIVE Thalium before finally throwing his hands up and saying authoritatively 'er...I'm not sure what it is') it was originally mooted that Mario Scaramella (in his first media incarnation as an FSB agent) sprayed it in aerosol form on to Litvinenko's sushi. Hmm...

Clearly, Scaramella gave Litvinenko some sort of Micky Finn to make him feel unwell. My own view is that he probably gave him something sub lethal.

3) There is almost certainly no connection because Thalium and the objects mentioned. In any case I don't believe that Thalium was used and, as you yourself acknowledge, we can't even be sure that the claim about the dense, round objects is true. And even if it is, there could be innocent explanations for their presence in his gut (intestinal blockages etc).

4) Both Thalium and Polonium were given as the official cause of death, though not at the same time. I believe the spooks dumped Thalium as the 'offical' lethal agent because they discovered too late that its antidote - Prussian Blue (originally a paint dye) - has been known about for a long time and its effectiveness widely acknowledged.

Once the spooks began to get feedback on the antidote for 'ordinary' Thalium that's when the 'toxicological creep' to 'RADIOACTIVE Thalium' set in. However, the recently FDA approved and slightly less well known derivative of PB, Radiogardese, is an effective antidote for BOTH types of Thalium. So then the black ops merchants panicked and did a 'moonlight flit' to Polonium (possibly because DMSA is less well known or is not as effective an antidote for Polonium as Radiogardese is for Thalium).

5) I believe that Scaramella initially made Litvinenko ill, but that it was MI5/6 doctors (or specialist medics from the SAS seconded to the intelligence services known as 'The Increment') that probably killed him (starting in Barnet General where he was first admitted and then later at University College Hospital). There are several reasons why I believe this:

(i) Anyone vaguely acquainted with toxicological testing knows that false positives are rare - the whole Guy's scenario and Henry's conjecturing sounds very unscientific.

(ii) No firm date of Litvinenko's admission to Barnet General has ever been given: some say he went the same day, others the next, and some other reports say he waited till the weekend.

(iii) Doctors at BG initially refused to believe Litvinenko's wife's claim that he had been posioned even when she told them who he was - this appears to have been a delaying tactic.

(iv) Despite (ii) & (iii) the BBC's Russian Language Service reported that Litvinenko had been poisoned in their weekly broadcast dated the 11th November - a full week before The Daily Mail (an MI5/6 rag) 'scooped' the Litvinenko story but barely a week after his admission to BG and, MOST CRUCIALLY, a full 5 days BEFORE the Guy's Hospital 'positive' Thalium test came through - remarkable!

(v) The transfer to UCL was bizarre and unnecessary - it is not known as a poisons' treatment centre. However, it is just a hop, skip and a jump from 'Spook Central' (Thames House and Vauxhal Cross - MI5/6 HQ's respectively) and very handy for world media.

All the above when taken with the Itsu/Millennium Hotel timeline and the failure to test the Easy Jet flights for Polonium strongly indicate that Litvinenko's death was the result of a western conspiracy in which MI5/6 played a leading role.

And the principal reason why Litvinenko was targeted for assassination? My hunch now (but don't quote me on this) is that he was a double agent who owed his true allegiance to the FSB. I have three reasons for believing this:

a) His confession to Berezovski in Russia that he had been sent to kill him in or around 1998 doesn't quite ring true. I believe Litvinenko told him this to get Berezovski to flee to the West and to shadow him for the Kremlin.

b) His meetings with 'former' FSB chums in the Millennium Hotel appears suspicious. A 'former' agent (in the full sense of the term) of normal working age is a very rare thing indeed in Russia (25% of the current Kremlin are 'former' security service personnel and a further 50% refuse to disclose their work backgrounds).

c) His declared support for Chechen rebels looked a little contrived to me. But EITHER side could have asked him to feign this.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a) His confession to Berezovski in Russia that he had been sent to kill him in or around 1998 doesn't quite ring true. I believe Litvinenko told him this to get Berezovski to flee to the West and to shadow him for the Kremlin.

b) His meetings with 'former' FSB chums in the Millennium Hotel appears suspicious. A 'former' agent (in the full sense of the term) of normal working age is a very rare thing indeed in Russia (25% of the current Kremlin are 'former' security service personnel and a further 50% refuse to disclose their work backgrounds).

c) His declared support for Chechen rebels looked a little contrived to me. But EITHER side could have asked him to feign this.


Whatever happened Litvinenko was employed by Berezovsky and lived in berezovsky's house. So Litvinenko trusted berezovsky and was beholden to him. He acted on his employers behalf.
therefore what meetings he had on those last days were under the terms of his employment.
You are not going to let your employee go off galavanting around meeting people on your time unless you sanction those meetings.

Berezovsky hates the chechens after all it was Yeltsin who declared war on the chechens. The fact that he has a former chechen guy under his wing living in his house driving his range rover is simply window dressing.

The chechen holocaust is never spoken about by any mainstream media.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, Stelios, I only SUSPECT that Litvinenko was a double agent. If though, for the sake of argument, I assert that he was, your objection to this (on the grounds that he was beholden to his employer, Beresovski) is quite silly, pitifully lame and naive in the extreme.

Beresovski maybe an influential billionaire. But you forget he is stateless and a relatively new arrival here. Whatever influence he has in the UK today it is nothing compared to what he formerly had in Russia, yet despite his wealth he still had to leave the motherland in something a hurry.

Whether he was 'forced' to flee Russia or not is something that we might never know (one secret that Litvinenko may well have taken to his grave) but several Rusian oligarchs have found out to their cost in recent years where power in their country now lies - and that's with the FSB (as I mentioned earlier up to 75% of the Politburo may have an intelligence service background).

What goes for Russia, also goes for the West. MI5/6 almost certainly set up the Litvinenko hit. Only MI5/6 could liaise securely with SISDE and provide cover and eventual immunity for one of their agents (Scaramella). Only MI5/6 could have taken over Litvinenko's 'care' in the NHS. And only MI5/6 could have managed the flow of information to the media (particularly the BBC - remember 7/7?).

Beresovski is a very important asset of the Western intelligence network. But it is important to understand who owns whom. Beresovski is an instrument of the West, not the other way round.

If he ever forgot this then he, like Litvinenko, would become just another one of 'Putin's' victims.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all I must point out an erratum in one of my earlier postings in which I referred to the toxicologist who confirmed Litvinenko's positive test for Thalium Sulphate (NB not Polonium 210) at Guys Hospital on the 16th November. I referred to him as Professor Tony Henry. This should have read Professor JOHN Henry. So sackcloth and ashes for me.

I mention this because said Prof made a guest appearance on an Horizon documentary this week about 'committing the perfect murder.' And yes he talked and chalked about Litvinenko, Thalium, Polonium etc. And no he didn't come out with anything new. But just as the credits started to roll the continuity announcer made a dramatic intervention:

'we regret to inform you that since the making of this programme Professor John Henry has passed away.'
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How old was this bloke, Pincher (guestimate)?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
First of all I must point out an erratum in one of my earlier postings in which I referred to the toxicologist who confirmed Litvinenko's positive test for Thalium Sulphate (NB not Polonium 210) at Guys Hospital on the 16th November. I referred to him as Professor Tony Henry. This should have read Professor JOHN Henry. So sackcloth and ashes for me.

I mention this because said Prof made a guest appearance on an Horizon documentary this week about 'committing the perfect murder.' And yes he talked and chalked about Litvinenko, Thalium, Polonium etc. And no he didn't come out with anything new. But just as the credits started to roll the continuity announcer made a dramatic intervention:

'we regret to inform you that since the making of this programme Professor John Henry has passed away.'


Interesting news Pincher.

I can't find any further information as yet regarding the circumstances of his death, but I couldn't help it crossing my mind about the hapless life of a loose end in the power game these days.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig W wrote:
How old was this bloke, Pincher (guestimate)?


I would put him at between 55-65 so one has to be careful about jumping to conclusions. At the same time there is every reason to suspect that his death may have been more than a tragic coincidence.

Professor Henry appeared to be the 'point man' for all queries on Litvinenko's condition between Saturday 18th - Tuesday 21st November before he 'retired' from the case. He publicly revised on at least two occasions his initial statement that Litvinenko had tested positive for thalium sulphate poisoning.

It has been claimed that Henry was retained by the Litvinenko family and that he treated the former FSB man at UCL. This appears irregular to say the least. Or is the NHS more flexible than we are led to believe? Pardon my cynicism but I don't think that the Litvinenko's would have had the clout to bring Henry in to second guess conventional medical wisdom. But somebody else would have.

And it seems that Henry had form in high profile suspicious poisoning cases. He was the expert called to find out why Yushenko had a major disagreement with his soup du jour (dioxin). Again, I wonder who had the clout to do that.

Henry's (as yet to be updated) Wikipedia entry has him working out of Imperial College, London and St Mary's Hospital, Paddington (which makes him more academic than medic).

So why were Litvinenko's samples tested at Guys and why was he moved from Barnet General to UCL?
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Pincher.

Another suspicious death...

Sorry if I've missed it, but is the cause of death known at all?

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Henry's death reported here


Dear Mark,

Thank you for your email. We worked with John ourselves and everyone here was very sad to hear the news, too. He passed away in the early hours of the morning on 8 May.

John’s colleague Mike Platt has written an obituary which I believe the Times will be publishing shortly, although I don’t know the date – it may be out tomorrow.

===============================================

Professor Henry passed away on the same day that the Horizon programme 'A Perfect Murder' was broadcast, in which he discussed the poisoning of Yushenko and Litvinenko.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given his ill health I am forced to downgrade my suspicions surrounding Henry's death. However they are not completely allayed. The Imperial College obituary did mention that he died unexpectedly.

I also find it curious that he is reported as dying on the very day of the screening of the Horizon documentary. Did the Beeb have a news crew by his bedside (remember they reported his death at the end of the programme)?

Finally, I find it odd that the obit makes no reference to Henry's involvement in the Yushenko and Litvinenko cases. After all, these sordid affairs were what brought him to public attention.
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Pincher.

Incredible synchronicity at best, downright suspicious at least.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Given his ill health I am forced to downgrade my suspicions surrounding Henry's death. However they are not completely allayed. The Imperial College obituary did mention that he died unexpectedly.

I also find it curious that he is reported as dying on the very day of the screening of the Horizon documentary. Did the Beeb have a news crew by his bedside (remember they reported his death at the end of the programme)?

Finally, I find it odd that the obit makes no reference to Henry's involvement in the Yushenko and Litvinenko cases. After all, these sordid affairs were what brought him to public attention.


Very well observed, Pincher.

My antennae picked up the same oddities but I'm not sure my suspicions have been lowered.

While it may of course have been nothing more than a coincidence, the timing and omissions from the obit are pretty strange.

People with chronic but not life-threatening illnesses are not immune from being bumped off. A little assistance is all that would be needed, especially if he was already being treated...

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher - I like your style. Nice work
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rodin wrote:
Pincher - I like your style. Nice work

Agreed Thumbs Up

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here is The Times' obituary that appeared today:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article1784823.ece

Some initial thoughts:

1) Although referred to twice his involvement in the Litvinenko case is glossed over. He is referred to as having merely given (private) opinions on the matter. There is no sense of him having been formerly retained by any party.

2) Intriguingly, he is described as strong willed and unconventional (it seems he pooh-poohed the effectiveness of a ricin attack on the tube). Not the sort of expert the spooks would want hanging around itching to queer their pitch eh?

3) The Times mentions PRECISELY the cause of death. Barring misadventure and murder it's considered tasteless to put forward anything other than the euphemistic 'after a long illness' by way of explanation (accepting that Henry's 'long illness' was 'unexpected').

I'd be interested to hear the observations of other resident sleuths.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see nothing suspicious in either Henry's death or its announcement at the end of the Horizon programme. I would have done if 1. he had been healthy, and 2. he had seriously disputed the cause of Litvinenko's death and was planning to take the issue further. As, however, he was gravely ill at the time of his appearance in the programme, why would someone take the risk of bringing forward his anticipated death when he was not challenging the status quo? It is broadcasting etiquette to announce the death of some participant in a programme, so nothing can be read into that.

In short, this is a lot ado about nothing.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Micpsi wrote:
I see nothing suspicious in either Henry's death or its announcement at the end of the Horizon programme. I would have done if 1. he had been healthy, and 2. he had seriously disputed the cause of Litvinenko's death and was planning to take the issue further. As, however, he was gravely ill at the time of his appearance in the programme, why would someone take the risk of bringing forward his anticipated death when he was not challenging the status quo? It is broadcasting etiquette to announce the death of some participant in a programme, so nothing can be read into that.

In short, this is a lot ado about nothing.


1) Henry died the very same day that the Horizon programme was screened on the 8th May (though this fact was not included in the announcer's statement).

2) Henry's statements about Litvinenko testing positive for thallium sulphate poisoning were at odds with the later official cause of death (polonium 210). He never publicly supported this view and was 'retired' from the case.

3) I have not come across any reports stating that Henry was seriously ill at the time of his participation in the Horizon documentary. And certainly no one watching the footage could deduce this. Where did you get your information from?

You might care to measure your statements in future. I'd be prepared to engage with you if you prefaced your scepticism with something like 'On the balance of probabilities...' But saying you have no suspicions at all just makes you appear bull headed.
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As one of this board's resident insominiacs I sometimes tune into Dotun Adebayo's obituary show 'Brief Lives' on Radio 5 Live in the wee hours of Monday morning.

Now, guess who's toxicological exploits came under the microscope in this week's edition.

And guess what mysterious little episode right at the end of his brief life didn't...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: All done for television my friend Reply with quote

Why use this particular poison? All done for television my friend. This entire case smacks of pure theatre. And behind the scenes, people so evil they can send one of their victims to die with TV cameras in his face.

Berezovsky's my guess - the Russians agree - that man poisons whatever he touches.

The society of the spectacle is upon us.


chek wrote:
What I find most mysterious is why should such a bizarre hi-tech means used at all?
Even if the hit was meant to become public knowledge as a 'message', it still seems one of the most drawn out and long-winded assassinations since Georgi Markov's.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: All done for television my friend Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
Why use this particular poison? All done for television my friend. This entire case smacks of pure theatre. And behind the scenes, people so evil they can send one of their victims to die with TV cameras in his face.

Berezovsky's my guess - the Russians agree - that man poisons whatever he touches.

Thank goodness someone agrees with me.
Ofcourse Boris is the murderer. Dont forget 3 weeks before the murder Russia formally asked for him to be extradited to face trial.
His list of crimes reads like the Godfather trilogy. Extortion, tax evasion, fraud, theft, murder, robbery, embezzelment.
So the only way for Boris to avoid extradition was to use the conjurers trick of diverting attention.
By killing his employee in such a slow and public way he took himself out of the spotlight.
However, now even Brazil has asked for his extradition. So the net is getting tighter.

Did you know that Boris is a major start up investor in Neil Bush's company? Neil Bush is George Bush's younger brother. Marvin Bush ran world trade centre security on 911 and Jeb Bush guaranteed the election victory as Florida governor. I am shocked that Boris's close relationshp with the Bush family using Boris's stolen money to set up a big business has not been even mentioned in the news media.

Lets use the power of this website to expose this crooked relationship.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pincher wrote:
Micpsi wrote:
I see nothing suspicious in either Henry's death or its announcement at the end of the Horizon programme. I would have done if 1. he had been healthy, and 2. he had seriously disputed the cause of Litvinenko's death and was planning to take the issue further. As, however, he was gravely ill at the time of his appearance in the programme, why would someone take the risk of bringing forward his anticipated death when he was not challenging the status quo? It is broadcasting etiquette to announce the death of some participant in a programme, so nothing can be read into that.

In short, this is a lot ado about nothing.


1) Henry died the very same day that the Horizon programme was screened on the 8th May (though this fact was not included in the announcer's statement).

So what? Do you really imagine the spooks do their wet jobs on the day the victim appears in a TV documentary? HILARIOUS!
Pincher wrote:

2) Henry's statements about Litvinenko testing positive for thallium sulphate poisoning were at odds with the later official cause of death (polonium 210). He never publicly supported this view and was 'retired' from the case.


And you think he was killed for such a dissenting opinion? HILARIOUS!
Pincher wrote:

3) I have not come across any reports stating that Henry was seriously ill at the time of his participation in the Horizon documentary. And certainly no one watching the footage could deduce this. Where did you get your information from?

You might care to measure your statements in future. I'd be prepared to engage with you if you prefaced your scepticism with something like 'On the balance of probabilities...' But saying you have no suspicions at all just makes you appear bull headed.


No, it does not. When events can be explained as coincidence, I see no reason to be suspicious. Unlike those like you who are so desperate to see a conspiracy at work, you never want to think of the possibility of chance.
You might care to be more sensitive in the future to this possibility because ignoring it just makes you look silly.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.rt.com/news/kremlin-death-squads-uk-913/
‘Kremlin death squads’ spook UK
Published: 03 October, 2011, 16:18



Quote:
The British media has placed the blame for the 2006 killing of Aleksandr Litvinenko in London squarely on the shoulders of Russia’s government, and says the Kremlin has special death squads to dispose of its enemies abroad.
As the case of Litvinenko’s death from polonium poisoning approaches hearings next week, the British media has reiterated allegations that the killing was ordered by the Kremlin.

The Sunday Times published an interview with the former British Director of Public Prosecutions, Ken Macdonald, who investigated the death. He was the first British official to publicly accuse Russia of planning and committing the crime, which he dubbed a state-ordered execution.

Meanwhile, The Daily Telegraph says it has acquired a copy of a top-secret order which authorizes training by Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) of death squads which would operate in former Soviet states and in Europe.

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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Litvinenko read Al Magrahi.
Both men who knew too much - fall guys for Western crimes.
Convenient lies to store up for future international MSM hate campaigns.
International crooked diplomacy Foreign Office style.

Litvinenko's death bears all the hallmarks, as they say, of Boris Berezovsky.
Who coincidentally has been in the news today on a rare venturing out from his former French Foreign Legion & IDF soldier guarded home at Hascombe Court in Surrey.

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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Litvinenko case opens in London
http://rt.com/news/line/2011-10-13/#id20187
The first hearings on the circumstances surrounding the 2006 death of former Russian intelligence agent Alexander Litvinenko were held in London on Thursday. A British coroner judge who is considering the case said it may be taken to the Superior Court. Litvinenko’s relatives are trying to prove that his death violated the second article of the European Convention of Human Rights, which guarantees an individual’s right to life. Litvinenko died from poisoning by a radioactive substance in November 2006 in a London hospital. The incident has clouded relations between Russia and the UK ever since.

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insidejob
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Polonuim - a ridiculous weapon Reply with quote

The idea that Litvinenko was murdered through the use of Polonium is total rubbish.

Polonium is more expensive than gold. Why would any State use a substance more expensive than gold to kill anyone? And since when did any State give training to its assassins on the use of a radioactive substance to carry out their killings? The whole thing is absurd.

What is more likely? That Litvineko poisoned himself accidentally whilst smuggling Polonium.
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