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Ian, Y do U continually allow trolls 2 attack/slander here?
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Killtown
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Ian, Y do U continually allow trolls 2 attack/slander here? Reply with quote

Are you running a shill site?

Or do you just not care?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well internet explorer mysteriously encontered a problem in my diatribe answer to this just now, so here's a second attempt
Let me just state my position. Iíve been pretty much an NPTer since being in Ellis Taylorís now defunct Yahoo forum at the same time as Rosalee G in 2003 or thereabouts. Iíve never seen much reason to alter that position since.
Much the same with DEW since the getgo.
So Iím basically a friendly, Killtown.
Now I learnt early on that the expression of either of those views provokes a heehaw response from most of those whoíve seen through the original lie. And who hold to the real planes/explosive demolition ideas. Whilst I perfectly understand the Ďcontrolled opposition Ď thesis and am sure it exists, I donít think most of those who oppose you on this forum are shill or controlled. Those you list are genuine people who havenít got it or are genuinely afraid that more far out ideas will put off potential supporters. I can see that. People have to get behind veil after veil in their own time.
You know Icke, I personally support his most Ďridiculousí theories. But I donít expect everyone else in a general truth movement to.
You know, you just present the evidence and thoughts that you have, and if you seem to evoke a gaggle of hysterical gainsayers then you just leave it alone, no matter how aggressive they may seem.
All you can present your stuff and allow others to accept or reject
For some reason noplaners and the like seem all too ready to engage in aggressive interplay with their adversaries
That isnít the way forward and builds up a bad repute.
Btw I agree that Above Top Secret is a fully accredited shill and manipulative site. I did 6 months there and got * off, not for NPT or anything but over the 21/7 flour bombings and the De Menezes events. I think ATS a worthy target

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks dh

We have been here before Killtown

Who has broken which rules?
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Killtown
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't play stupid Ian. If you don't know which rules all the trolls break on almost every post they make, then you are either ignorant, don't care, or a shill.
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my left bollock
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Ian...............YOU ARE IGNORANT, DON'T CARE OR ARE A SHILL
SO WHICH ONE IS IT?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do certain posters think their neanderthal, personalised level of verbal thuggery will achieve what they themselves cannot with reasoned argument?

Just asking questions....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my left bollock wrote:
Yes Ian...............YOU ARE IGNORANT, DON'T CARE OR ARE A SHILL
SO WHICH ONE IS IT?


we are all ignorant as it is a human attribute. as beings we are perceptually limited. in terms of cares, what little i do know of Ian i believe he does a sterling job moderating this site, holding down a job and taking care of his family. But there are a lot of ejiits on this forum on this site that i rarely post.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomcatma wrote:
what little i do know of Ian i believe he does a sterling job moderating this site

Sorry to say, but if you think that, you do know little. Ian is running this forum into the ground by not dealing with the trolls. He gives them supremacy here which leads me to believe 1) he doesn't care (which yesterday he admitted) 2) and/or his a shill.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this user name should be banned


my left bollock wrote:
Yes Ian...............YOU ARE IGNORANT, DON'T CARE OR ARE A SHILL
SO WHICH ONE IS IT?

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Killtown
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
this user name should be banned


my left bollock wrote:
Yes Ian...............YOU ARE IGNORANT, DON'T CARE OR ARE A SHILL
SO WHICH ONE IS IT?

Why? Ian admitted he doesn't care much, so 'my left bollock' was correct in what he said.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For obvious reasons

Killtown wrote:

Why? Ian admitted he doesn't care much, so 'my left bollock' was correct in what he said.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and now for some reason I can't edit my previous post

the user name is an obscenity and as such should not be allowed

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
and now for some reason I can't edit my previous post

the user name is an obscenity and as such should not be allowed

You guys allow trolls to post obscenities here. Why the double standard? (And is "bollock" an obscenity? I'm not British.)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously bollock is not an obscenity because the censorship software does not asterisk. Same with piss and *, I believe.
Where does all this lead?
You're a shill, he's a shill. My Aunt Fanny. Is that allowed. We shall see.
ps killtown in UK fanny in common parlance usually means the female pudenda in case you didn't know.
Hope I've ripened the argument

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes and why are things on this thread uneditable? Most inappropriate where people just might want to amend what they said. Ian.....?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its almost certainly because various people have set things up on this forum in a somewhat chaotic fashion
John White and I, even when moderators, couldn't tidy up the multimedia section.
I vote for c*** up over conspiracy for a change Wink

dh wrote:
Oh yes and why are things on this thread uneditable? Most inappropriate where people just might want to amend what they said. Ian.....?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyGosling wrote:
I vote for c*** up over conspiracy for a change Wink

Watch it! Tony. If "my left bollock" is an obscenity then surely "c***-up" is too.


It's a curious thing in the English language that if you use the Latin word for something it is considered technical an inoffensive, but as soon as you use the Anglo-Saxon word it is seen as offensive. But if that's what you believe, Tony, I suggest you tell "my left bollock" he'll have to change his name to "my left testical" and you'll have to stop using the term "c***-up" yourself and replace it with "penis-up".

Personally I find it all hilariously irrelevant to a serious discussion about 9/11.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Ian, Y do U continually allow trolls 2 attack/slander he Reply with quote

Killtown wrote:
Are you running a shill site?

Or do you just not care?


Killtown, No way is Ian Neal a shill. He's the guy who started the campaign off in the UK in Feb 04 and I've had the pleasure of working closely with him ever since, developing enormous respect for his strategy and judgement.

As DH has explained on this thread, there are a lot of people who think NPT and DEW are either unlikely theories or theories which the public will find particularly hard to believe. There has been controversy about it on this site and I personally believe that this forum is the kind of place where people should be free to discuss all and any theory, because the campaign has its own website which seeks to present a public face: http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ Some, however, want this site to be more tightly controlled in order to present a publicly acceptable face. That control would probably ban discussion of DEW and NPT. Some supporters of this campaign quite seriously think these theories have been expounded by shills in order to make 9/11 truth seekers look extremist and silly.

I have tried, Killtown, to incorporate your 250+smoking guns in things I have written for the campaign, but some colleagues have urged me not to because other things on the Killtown site favour NPT and DEW. I have argued that I'm not referring people to the whole Killtown site, merely using the smoking guns, but some are so terrified of the possible damaging effect of mentioning these theories that they will not have anything to do even with the smoking guns for fear it will lead folk back to your site and your theories.

Now that's the reality of this campaign. People get so fond of their particular theories that they find it hard to believe that anyone with a conflicting theory can possibly be sincere. However, whatever we think really happened, we all unite around the belief we have been lied to about 9/11 and that an independent inquiry is needed to determine the facts.

BTW Killtown, I didn't realise you were a real person. I thought you were just the name of a website. Welcome! Good to see you posting here.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Ian, Y do U continually allow trolls 2 attack/slander he Reply with quote

xmasdale wrote:
1) Killtown, No way is Ian Neal a shill. He's the guy who started the campaign off in the UK in Feb 04 and I've had the pleasure of working closely with him ever since, developing enormous respect for his strategy and judgement.

2) As DH has explained on this thread, there are a lot of people who think NPT and DEW are either unlikely theories or theories which the public will find particularly hard to believe. There has been controversy about it on this site and I personally believe that this forum is the kind of place where people should be free to discuss all and any theory, because the campaign has its own website which seeks to present a public face: http://www.911truthcampaign.net/ Some, however, want this site to be more tightly controlled in order to present a publicly acceptable face. That control would probably ban discussion of DEW and NPT. Some supporters of this campaign quite seriously think these theories have been expounded by shills in order to make 9/11 truth seekers look extremist and silly.

3) I have tried, Killtown, to incorporate your 250+smoking guns in things I have written for the campaign, but some colleagues have urged me not to because other

4) things on the Killtown site favour NPT and DEW.

5) I have argued that I'm not referring people to the whole Killtown site, merely using the smoking guns, but some are so terrified of the possible damaging effect of mentioning these theories that they will not have anything to do even with the smoking guns for fear it will lead folk back to your site and your theories.

Now that's the reality of this campaign. People get so fond of their particular theories that they find it hard to believe that anyone with a conflicting theory can possibly be sincere. However, whatever we think really happened, we all unite around the belief we have been lied to about 9/11 and that an independent inquiry is needed to determine the facts.

6) BTW Killtown, I didn't realise you were a real person. I thought you were just the name of a website. Welcome! Good to see you posting here.

1) Shill was just one logical answers as to his blatant disregard to the HORRIBLE troll problem here.

2) I applaud this site for allowing all theories to be discussed here, even if they put them in a separate section. My only real problem with this site it the infestation of trolls. Hell, one of the worst trolls here was a mod for god sakes!

3) Pity they would forgo 90% of the info on my site they agree with for the 10% they don't.

4) I don't believe I have anything on my site about DEW. Correct me if I'm wrong.

5) Sounds like they are paranoid.

6) Thank you. Cheers! Thumbs Up

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killtown and my left bollock, please provide evidence to support your insinuations that Ian is a shill.

You're aware that calling anyone on this site a shill without providing evidence is directly breaking the rules and can result in a ban. Just becuase Ian is an admin does not mean he should have to take it more than anyone else here.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's forget about Killtown's quaint and idiosyncratic use of the word 'troll', which I guarantee nobody else defines in the way he does, and should not intimidate people.

Let's instead consider his wish to promote proven and insidious falsehoods such as September Clueless and its ilk in a criticism free section, without any challenge being permitted to similar disgraces pretty much by statute.

That is, in my view, an unconscionable concession to the shrillest and most thuggish of elements which is not only the thin end of a wedge that will inevitably lead to regretful consequences for the UK arm of campaign - not least in terms of public credibility - but is no standard to maintain when we have genuine researchers into hard evidence such as Calum as members.

I would urge anyone who wonders what a Killtown zone might be like or how it might possibly enhance this forum to peruse his existing site for a glimpse of one possible future.

http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=1795

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:
Killtown and my left bollock, please provide evidence to support your insinuations that Ian is a shill.

You're aware that calling anyone on this site a shill without providing evidence is directly breaking the rules and can result in a ban. Just becuase Ian is an admin does not mean he should have to take it more than anyone else here.

I'm not accusing him of being a shill, I'm asking him if he is and by his inaction of controlling the trolls, one might think he doesn't care, or is a shill.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: definitions Reply with quote

what is a shill and what is a troll? and how useful is it to go around accusing people of this anyway? lets get on wth the campaign and stop using insults with each other. constructive criticism doesnt use insults.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

frazzel wrote:
what is a shill and what is a troll? and how useful is it to go around accusing people of this anyway? lets get on wth the campaign and stop using insults with each other. constructive criticism doesnt use insults.

A shill is someone who pretends to be on your side, but is actually working for the enemy.

A troll is someone who instigates to get a rise out of it because they are usually losers who never got laid and also usually engages in infantile behavior when debating.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

Killtown wrote:
frazzel wrote:
what is a shill and what is a troll? and how useful is it to go around accusing people of this anyway? lets get on wth the campaign and stop using insults with each other. constructive criticism doesnt use insults.

A shill is someone who pretends to be on your side, but is actually working for the enemy.

A troll is someone who instigates to get a rise out of it because they are usually losers who never got laid and also usually engages in infantile behavior when debating.


Seems to me, as someone who views NPT and its offshoots as a sophisticated disinfo campaign, that you fit both descriptions perfectly Killtown.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

chek wrote:


Seems to me, as someone who views NPT and its offshoots as a sophisticated disinfo campaign, that you fit both descriptions perfectly Killtown.


Seems that in his view, you might fit also, chek. Chekmate. I seem to have been involved in loads of agents, shills, trolls debates. I the end they're pointless, and the whole subject can only be 'solved' by invite-only forums. Hardly open discussion.

I appreciate that some of the leading lights in NPT and DEW research have suffered personal damage. This needs highlighting by reasoned discussion. The promoters of both ideas have been damaged by the aggressive and evangelical postures of some online promoters.
The opposition has been unnecessarily aggressive in many instances also

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

dh wrote:
chek wrote:


Seems to me, as someone who views NPT and its offshoots as a sophisticated disinfo campaign, that you fit both descriptions perfectly Killtown.


Seems that in his view, you might fit also, chek. Chekmate. I seem to have been involved in loads of agents, shills, trolls debates. I the end they're pointless, and the whole subject can only be 'solved' by invite-only forums. Hardly open discussion.

I appreciate that some of the leading lights in NPT and DEW research have suffered personal damage. This needs highlighting by reasoned discussion. The promoters of both ideas have been damaged by the aggressive and evangelical postures of some online promoters.
The opposition has been unnecessarily aggressive in many instances also


The difference is dh, that in every single case I question the evidence being presented.

It seems only too plain to me that doing so makes you a troll or a shill to use KT's quaint and flexibly meaningless terminology.

I think I have only used the term shill once - to anti-sophist, who it turned out was/is a military-industrial apparatchik.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

chek wrote:
dh wrote:
chek wrote:


Seems to me, as someone who views NPT and its offshoots as a sophisticated disinfo campaign, that you fit both descriptions perfectly Killtown.


Seems that in his view, you might fit also, chek. Chekmate. I seem to have been involved in loads of agents, shills, trolls debates. I the end they're pointless, and the whole subject can only be 'solved' by invite-only forums. Hardly open discussion.

I appreciate that some of the leading lights in NPT and DEW research have suffered personal damage. This needs highlighting by reasoned discussion. The promoters of both ideas have been damaged by the aggressive and evangelical postures of some online promoters.
The opposition has been unnecessarily aggressive in many instances also


The difference is dh, that in every single case I question the evidence being presented.

It seems only too plain to me that doing so makes you a troll or a shill to use KT's quaint and flexibly meaningless terminology.

I think I have only used the term shill once - to anti-sophist, who it turned out was/is a military-industrial apparatchik.


Pretty much agree on that, chek. Even though questioning the evidence opens up into a terrible terminal roundabout

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

dh wrote:
The opposition has been unnecessarily aggressive in many instances also

Many? Most.

We (NPT crowd) are mostly only aggressive in defending ourselves against the trolls attacking us.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: definitions Reply with quote

dh wrote:

Pretty much agree on that, chek. Even though questioning the evidence opens up into a terrible terminal roundabout


Maybe it's where I'm from and what's happened here, but I'm afraid that when I see any old shuck being passed off as a truth I have to question it.

I take the view that if it withstands that questioning process, it may be related to the truth, and not until then.

Faith has a place in life, but 911 attracts too many hucksters and charlatans - on both sides of the OCT - to take anything on trust.

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