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C21 Illuminati - fact or fantasy?
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Whitehall_Bin_Men
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.illuminatimembers.com/illuminati%20members%20list.html



ILLUMINATI MEMBERS.COM
TIMELINE: ANGLO ISRAELISM ROOTS & THE NEW WORLD ORDER(CONDENSED) PART IV
PART I PART II PART III PART IV RUSSIA
illuminati members listilluminati bilderberg nwoilluminati members nwo
THE BRITISH MONARCHY AND THE COMMITTEE OF 300
(AS OF SEPTEMBER 2010)
*CURRENT MONARCH AND SUPREME LEADER OF THE NWO: Queen Elizabeth II
Abdullah II of Jordan
Abramovich, Roman Arkadyevich
Ackermann, Josef
Adeane, Edward
Agius, Marcus Ambrose Paul
Ahtisaari, Martti Oiva Kalevi
Akerson, Daniel
Albert II of Belgium
Alexander - Crown Prince of Yugoslavia
Alexandra (Princess) - The Honourable Lady Ogilvy
Alphonse, Louis - Duke of Anjou
Amato, Giuliano
Anderson, Carl A.
Andreotti, Giulio
Andrew (Prince) - Duke of York
Anne - Princess Royal
Anstee, Nick
Ash, Timothy Garton
Astor, William Waldorf - 4th Viscount Astor
August, Ernst - Prince of Hanover
Aven, Pyotr
Balkenende, Jan Peter
Ballmer, Steve
Balls, Ed
Barroso, José Manuel
Beatrix (Queen)
Belka, Marek
Bergsten, C. Fred
Berlusconi, Silvio
Bernake, Ben
Bernhard (Prince) of Lippe-Biesterfeld
Bernstein, Nils
Berwick, Donald
Bildt, Carl
Bischoff, Sir Winfried Franz Wilhen "Win"
Blair, Tony
Blankfein, Lloyd
Blavatnik, Leonard
Bloomberg, Michael
Bolkestein, Frits
Bolkiah, Hassanal
Bonello, Michael C
Bonino, Emma
Boren, David L.
Borwin - Duke of Mecklenburg
Bronfman, Charles Rosner
Bronfman, Edgar Jr.
Bruton, John
Brzezinski, Zbigniew
Budenberg, Robin
Buffet, Warren
Bush, George HW
Cameron, David William Donald
Camilla - Duchess of Cornwall
Cardoso, Fernando Henrique
Carington, Peter - 6th Baron Carrington
Carlos - Duke of Parma
Carlos, Juan - King of Spain
Carney, Mark J.
Carroll, Cynthia
Caruana, Jaime
Castell, Sir William
Chan, Anson
Chan, Margaret
Chan, Norman
Charles - Prince of Wales
Chartres, Richard
Chiaie, Stefano Delle
Chipman, Dr John
Chodiev, Patokh
Christoph, Prince of Schleswig-Holstein
Cicchitto, Fabrizio
Clark, Wesley Kanne Sr. (General)
Clarke, Kenneth
Clegg, Nick
Clinton, Bill
Cohen, Abby Joseph
Cohen, Ronald
Cohn, Gary D.
Colonna, Marcantonio (di Paliano) - Prince and Duke of Paliano
Constantijn (Prince) of the Netherlands
Constantine II Greece
Cooksey, David
Cowen, Brian
Craven, Sir John
Crockett, Andrew
Dadush, Uri
D'Aloisio, Tony
Darling, Alistair
Davies, Sir Howard
Davignon, Étienne
Davis, David
De Rothschild, Benjamin
De Rothschild, David René James
De Rothschild, Evelyn Robert
De Rothschild, Leopold David
Deiss, Joseph
Deripaska, Oleg
Dobson, Michael
Draghi, Mario
Du Plessis, Jan
Dudley, William C.
Duisenberg, Wim
Edward (Prince) - Duke of Kent
Edward (The Prince) - Earl of Wessex
Elkann, John
Emanuele, Vittorio - Prince of Naples, Crown Prince of Italy
Fabrizio (Prince) - Massimo-Brancaccio
Feldstein, Martin Stuart "Marty"
Festing, Matthew
Fillon, François
Fischer, Heinz
Fischer, Joseph Martin
Fischer, Stanley
FitzGerald, Niall
Franz, Duke of Bavaria
Fridman, Mikhail
Friedrich, Georg - Prince of Prussia
Friso (Prince) of Orange-Nassau
Gates, Bill
Geidt, Christopher
Geithner, Timothy
Gibson-Smith, Dr Chris
Gorbachev, Mikhail
Gore, Al
Gotlieb, Allan
Green, Stephen
Greenspan, Alan
Grosvenor, Gerald - 6th Duke of Westminster
Gurría, José Ángel
Gustaf, Carl XVI of Sweden
Hague, William
Hampton, Sir Philip Roy
Hans-Adam II - Prince of Liechtenstein
Harald V Norway
Harper, Stephen
Heisbourg, François
Henri - Grand Duke of Luxembourg
Hildebrand, Philipp
Hills, Carla Anderson
Holbrooke, Richard
Honohan, Patrick
Howard, Alan
Ibragimov, Alijan
Ingves, Stefan Nils Magnus
Isaacson, Walter
Jacobs, Kenneth M.
Julius, DeAnne
Juncker, Jean-Claude
Kenen, Peter
Kerry, John Forbes
King, Mervyn
Kinnock, Glenys
Kissinger, Henry
Knight, Malcolm
Koon, William H. II
Krugman, Paul
Kufuor, John
Lajolo, Giovanni
Lake, Anthony
Lambert, Richard
Lamy, Pascal
Landau, Jean-Pierre
Laurence, Timothy James Hamilton
Leigh-Pemberton, James
Leka, Crown Prince of Albania
Leonard, Mark
Levene, Peter - Baron Levene of Portsoken
Leviev, Lev
Levitt, Arthur
Levy, Michael - Baron Levy
Lieberman, Joe
Livingston, Ian
Loong, Lee Hsien
Lorenz (Prince) of Belgium, Archduke of Austria-Este
Louis-Dreyfus, Gérard
Mabel (Princess) of Orange-Nassau
Mandelson, Peter Benjamin
Manning, Sir David Geoffrey
Margherita - Archduchess of Austria-Este
Margrethe II Denmark
Martínez, Guillermo Ortiz
Mashkevitch, Alexander
Massimo, Stefano (Prince) - Prince of Roccasecca dei Volsci
McDonough, William Joseph
McLarty, Mack
Mersch, Yves
Michael (Prince) of Kent
Michael of Romania
Miliband, David
Miliband, Ed
Mittal, Lakshmi
Moreno, Glen
Moritz - Prince and Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel
Murdoch, Rupert
Napoléon, Charles
Nasser, Jacques
Niblett, Robin
Nichols, Vincent
Nicolás, Adolfo
Noyer, Christian
Ofer, Sammy
Ogilvy, David - 13th Earl of Airlie
Ollila, Jorma Jaakko
Oppenheimer, Nicky
Osborne, George
Oudea, Frederic
Parker, Sir John
Patten, Chris
Pébereau, Michel
Penny, Gareth
Peres, Shimon
Philip (Prince) - Duke of Edinburgh
Pio, Dom Duarte - Duke of Braganza
Pöhl, Karl Otto
Powell, Colin
Prokhorov, Mikhail
Quaden, Guy Baron
Rasmussen, Anders Fogh
Ratzinger, Joseph Alois (Pope Benedict XVI)
Reuben, David
Reuben, Simon
Rhodes, William R. "Bill"
Rice, Susan
Richard (Prince) - Duke of Gloucester
Rifkind, Sir Malcolm Leslie
Ritblat, Sir John
Roach, Stephen S.
Robinson, Mary
Rockefeller, David Jr.
Rockefeller, David Sr.
Rockefeller, Nicholas
Rodríguez, Javier Echevarría
Rogoff, Kenneth Saul "Ken"
Roth, Jean-Pierre
Rothschild, Jacob - 4th Baron Rothschild
Rubenstein, David
Rubin, Robert
Ruspoli, Francesco - 10th Prince of Cerveteri
Safra, Joseph
Safra, Moises
Sands, Peter A.
Sarkozy, Nicolas
Sassoon, Isaac S.D.
Sassoon, James Meyer - Baron Sassoon
Sawers, Sir Robert John
Scardino, Marjorie
Schwab, Klaus
Schwarzenberg, Karel
Schwarzman, Stephen A.
Shapiro, Sidney
Sheinwald, Nigel
Sigismund (Archduke) - Grand Duke of Tuscany
Simeon of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
Snowe, Olympia
Sofía (Queen) of Spain
Soros, George
Specter, Arlen
Stern, Ernest
Stevenson, Dennis - Baron Stevenson of Coddenham
Steyer, Tom
Stiglitz, Joseph E.
Strauss-Kahn, Dominique
Straw, Jack
Sutherland, Peter
Tanner, Mary
Tedeschi, Ettore Gotti
Thompson, Mark
Thomson, Dr. James A.
Tietmeyer, Hans
Trichet, Jean-Claude
Tucker, Paul
Van Rompuy, Herman
Vélez, Álvaro Uribe
Verplaetse, Alfons Vicomte
Villiger, Kaspar
Vladimirovna, Maria - Grand Duchess of Russia
Volcker, Paul
Von Habsburg, Otto
Waddaulah, Hassanal Bolkiah Mu'izzaddin
Walker, Sir David Alan
Wallenberg, Jacob
Walsh, John
Warburg, Max
Weber, Axel Alfred
Weill, Michael David
Wellink, Nout
Whitman, Marina von Neumann
Willem-Alexander - Prince of Orange
William (Prince) of Wales
Williams, Dr Rowan
Williams, Shirley - Baroness Williams of Crosby
Wilson, David - Baron Wilson of Tillyorn
Wolfensohn, James David
Wolin, Neal S.
Woolf, Harry - Baron Woolf
Woolsey, R. James Jr.
Worcester, Sir Robert Milton
Wu, Sarah
Zoellick, Robert Bruce



PART I PART II PART III PART IV RUSSIA


1550 AD THE FREEMASONS: STATUE OF LIBERTY (ISIS) French Grand Orient Temple Masons: A. Kilwinning Lodge was the first Freemasonic lodge and was located in Kilwinning Scotland near the area the Irish Gaels first settled in Scotland. The Canaanite bloodline is maintained through the ancestory of many Freemasons. B. Similar to ancient mystery religions such as the Eleusinian Mysteries, members of Freemasonry are not told all of the mysteries of the secret society from the beginning. One must pass through multiple levels before the greatest mysteries are revealed. Most members never achieve the highest levels. Lesser members typically continue to believe in the supreme being they belived in upon initiation. C. At the highest levels of Masonry, the hybrid Canaanite/Egyptian pantheon is worshipped. According to the Masonic perspective, the goddess Isis is at the head of the Pantheon. 1. The statue of Liberty is the goddess Isis. 2. The Washington monument represents the missing phallus of

Osiris (Isis' husband). [see Myth of Osiris and Isis] This giant phallus has little to do with sex or worshiping a penis and more to do with the myth concerning Isis. 3. Unlike Catholics and Orthodox Jews, Top Masons do not consider the Egyptian god Amun(El, Yahweh) to be the highest god. Rather it is the goddess Isis. 4. The large majority of high ranking Masons do not worship Pharaoh Caesarion(Jesus) or hold him in any reverence.

1586 AD SAINT PETER'S SQUARE (VATICAN): A. The obelisk at St. Peters square was erected by Domenico Fontana under the direction of Pope Sixtus V. Sixtus also erected another obelisk located just outside the Vatican at the Papal Archbasilica of St. John Lateran. This obelisk was transported from the Temple of Amun in Karnak. It was orginally built by Pharaoh Thutmose III who's name was changed to Moses in the Bible. B. Both obelisks represent the dwelling place of the god Amun-Ra which is identical to the Canaanite god El who was later called Yahweh(Lord) because El was considered too sacred to pronounce. Although many Catholics are unaware of the true nature of the God they worship they are in fact worshipping Amun(El), as are all faiths which worship the God of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). C. Pharaoh Caesarion(Jesus), the founder of Christianity is also worshipped by the Catholics as the chosen son of God. Remember that Caesarion's bloodline orginates from the Phoenician settlers of Argos and then Macedonia. He was also the rightful heir to the Roman Empire through Caesar and although he never saw it to fruition, the Holy Roman Empire. D. Unlike the Washington Monument which is a Freemason obelisk, the specimen located in St. Peter's square does not represent a phallus and is completly unrelated to the Freemason interpretation. The Catholic Church considers Freemasons to be in a grave state of sin. Freemasons have a long history of feuding with Catholics. E. Despite historical differences The Freemasons and the Cathloic Church are currently working together with Israel, the British Monarchy and their blood relations, to form a One World Government. The Canaanite bloodline unites them all. The British Monarchy plays the leading role as well as mediator between the other groups who often favor competing methods to achieve their goals.

* INTERESTING FACT: Throughout the Middle Ages, a metal globe was attached to the pinnacle of the Obelisk now located in Saint Peter's Square. It was commonly thought to contain the ashes of Gaius Julius Caesar (Caserion's father). Architect Domenico Fontana, who was responsible for erecting the Obelisk in it's current locaction, opened the sphere and found only dust. 1870 AD THE BLACK NOBILITY: A. After the army of the Kingdom of Italy entered Rome and overthrew the Papacy, the Pope remained in Vatican City as a prisoner of sorts. A number of Italian Royal families stood by the Pope and mourned his imprisonment. These men and women were called the Black Nobility.

B. The Black Nobility were members of the House of Welf, which already maintained relationships with the English Monarchy and other European families. Later on, Members of the Black Nobility were chosen for high ranking positions within the Catholic Church. Pope XII was a member of the Black Nobility. C. Aside from religious ties, the English Monarchy forged an important bond with the Black Nobility within the Catholic Church.

REAL ANGLO-ISRAELISM (THE POWER STRUCTURE): NOTE: Anglo Israelism is a fairly new concept which began to gain traction in the mid 1600's. This highly simplified diagram illustrates recognized links which unite the following groups. Obviously not all Israelis are Freemasons, but the ones who are maintain the link. The same can be said for some Welf descendants. Similarly, not all Freemasons are of the Canaanite bloodline, yet a select number maintain the link. The power structure is based

upon the strength of such links.
NWO POWER RANK (GREATEST TO LEAST):
1. BRITISH MONARCHY
2. ISRAEL
3. WELF RELATIONS
4. FREEMASONRY
5. CATHOLIC CHURCH

_________________
--
'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The history of the Illuminati:
By email from lady x

Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X_xB1JJ_Es

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"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
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Whitehall_Bin_Men
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Westminster, LONDON, SW1A 2HB.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the Illuminati control the world? Maybe it’s not such a mad idea
Julian Baggini
Questioning the hidden power of elites – whether big pharma or secret societies – is really quite sane
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/14/illuminati-runni ng-world-not-mad-idea-questioning-hidden-power-elites-sane

The eye of the Illuminati on a bank note. ‘It’s good to know that we’re much more sensible and rational than these clearly deluded conspiracy theorists.’

Wed 14 Feb 2018 19.49 GMT First published on Wed 14 Feb 2018 10.00 GMT

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If the Illuminati is real, it’s got to be the least secret secret society in the universe. It’s so bad at keeping itself hidden that its existence is proclaimed all over the internet by people whose investigative toolkit consists entirely of Google and a lively imagination.

The most recent would-be whistleblower, however, is far from your usual ex-sports commentator. Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian minister of defence, has blamed the Illuminati for suppressing technology brought to Earth by aliens that could end our reliance on fossil fuels.

What is the Illuminati? You asked Google – here’s the answer | Martha Gill

Why the possessors of such fantastic kit should prefer to cash in on the extraction of still abundant oil rather than on their incredible, exclusive alternative is mysterious. But since the whole point about secret all-powerful elites is that they are mysterious, maybe that’s to be expected. Perhaps the Illuminati is like that other great mystery, quantum theory: if you think you understand it, you don’t.


Mockery is easy, but it’s also reassuring. It’s good to know that we’re much more sensible and rational than these clearly deluded conspiracy theorists. The problem is that they differ from the rest of us only in degree, not kind.

The reasons why people believe in secret, controlling elites are rooted in basic human nature. We are constantly on the lookout for both patterns and agency. Pattern-seeking is essential for our survival, and the penalties for seeing patterns where none exist are lighter than those for missing patterns that really are there. If our ancestors had failed to notice that crops left to dry tended to die, they too would have expired through starvation. But if they thought they had noticed that sacrificing a goat increased the likelihood of rain, then at worst they wasted the odd bit of meat.

The assumption of agency is also extremely helpful. We cannot begin to understand the actions of others unless we attribute motives to their actions. But adopting what the US philosopher Daniel Dennett calls the “intentional stance” can be helpful even when we know that there is no conscious intention at all. Thinking of plants as “wanting” sunlight or “trying” to flower, for example, is an easy way of understanding their behaviour.

When these basic human cognitive mechanisms create problems we label them as pathologies. Pareidolia, for instance, is seeing patterns in random data, such as the face of Jesus in a cream cracker or the date of the apocalypse in Donald Trump’s social security number. However, from a strictly rational point of view, these mechanisms are always defective. The difference between a “normal” person and one with pareidolia is simply whether the over-sensitivity to pattern causes problems functioning. Similarly, hyperactive agency detection is the human condition, not a medical one.

Furthermore, the causes of our overuse of these basic cognitive mechanisms are often completely understandable desires rather than pathological defects. The world is confusing and complex. Almost all of us try to tidy it up, which is why there are disciplines such as social science, economics and international relations. All require the time, intelligence or education that most of us lack. Little wonder that we often resort to quicker, dirtier ways of making the world comprehensible.

The world is confusing and complex. When we dig for the truth, we flirt with madness
Rather than just dismissing Hellyer and his ilk, we would do better to see how much of our thinking displays the same weaknesses. In many circles, it is a sign of intelligence, not eccentricity, to attribute ultimate power to “a secret cabal that’s actually running the world”, as Hellyer put it. As long, that is, as the cabal is the global financial elite, the military–industrial complex, big pharma or agribusiness.


I’m not saying that these ideas are on the same level of nuttiness as the Illuminati. Indeed, it’s the differences that blind us to the similarities. Because these lesser conspiracy theories are grounded in evident truths, people easily fail to notice when they slide from seeing real, limited power to imagined, total power. The difference between vested interests that exercise influence all over the place are those that exercise control literally everywhere is in some ways small, in other ways critical.

The wrong moral to draw from this would be that anyone who sees hidden power being influenced is crazy. Rather, we should see the Hellyers of this world as the price we pay for being willing to question the manifest order and to expose the secretive interest groups who seek to manipulate the world for their own benefit. When we dig for the truth, we flirt with madness. But in a world where hidden power is all too real, it’s the only sane thing to do.

• Julian Baggini is a British philosopher

_________________
--
'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW WORLD ORDER & ELITE THINK TANKS
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/new_world_order_1.htm
By David Guyatt

Part one

The “New World Order was announced in a keynote speech by President George Bush on the eve of the Gulf War. Meant to signify US success in combining the military forces of numerous nations to “police” future global flare-ups – beginning with Iraq – a far darker purpose remained unstated. Sitting at the core of the NWO is another, more sinister goal: the political and economic dominance of the globe by an immensely powerful business elite.

Lurking behind and controlling the emerging world government is a small handful of influential men and women who – like the Gods on Mount Olympus – consider it their birthright to dominate mankind. Those who form this cabal operate in a network of shadowy organisations that proselytise the demise of western democracy. In its place they plan to substitute an authoritarian regime that benefits the few to the detriment of the many.

Central to their plans is the creeping disempowerment of elected national governments. Key domestic political policies including foreign, defence and economic portfolio’s will be subtly transferred to the hands of unelected “supra-national” bodies already under their sway. What remains of a nations governing structure will be used for routine administrative matters at a local level.

These moves are designed to commandeer the planet’s resources, wealth and output. A world army will suppress any nation that resists. Organisations like the United Nations and the European Union are just two of the platforms used to bring these plans to fruition. At least this is the view of numerous independent observers who say they - and you - are being robbed of any meaningful say in the future shape of things to come.

To support their scenario, critic’s point to a small number of influential, and inter-locking groups, that develop and implement global policy behind the scenes. Often formed in secrecy they operate as closed clubs where membership is by invitation only. The mainstream media, who are heavily represented in each of them, refuse to publish stories inimical to their long-term goals – aimed a global coup d’etat.

Of many such forums, the Bilderberg group is considered the pre-eminent “parallel government” that secretly sets the political and economic agenda of the European Union. Composed of 120 of the world’s most powerful and influential men and women – including heads of state, cabinet ranked politicians, royalty, leading industrialists, financiers, academics and media-people , they meet in secret each year. Here they manipulate events and clandestinely plan the election of the next President or Prime Minister. Nominees for these positions must give de facto loyalty to their hidden masters.

Named after the Hotel in Osterbeek, Holland, where the first meeting took place in May 1954, “Bilderbergers” – as they are known - are forbidden to speak openly of their discussions and the decisions they reach. Delegates are drawn from the US, Canada and Europe – with Europe sharing approximately two-thirds representation. Meetings are held for three days every year – in late May and early June - where “informal” discussions of “current concern” are tabled.

The names of those attending Bilderberg meetings reads like a compact version of “Who’s Who:” Lord Peter Carrington, former Foreign Secretary and Secretary General of NATO; Conrad Black, Chairman of Telegraph Newspapers Plc; Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State and Chairman, Kissinger Associates Inc; David Rockerfeller, Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank; James Wolfensohn, President, the World Bank; Lloyd Bentsen, former US Treasury Secretary; John Brown, Group CEO, British Petroleum; William McDonough, President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York; Colin Powell, former Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff; Simon Robertson, former Chairman Kleinwort Benson group Plc; Peter Sutherland, former Director general of GATT and WTO. These are just some of the “mover’s and shaker’s” who attended the 1997 meeting.

Their meetings are subject to massive security and utmost secrecy. The 1995 convention occurred in a mountain top retreat at Burgenstock, Switzerland. Attendees arrived and departed by helicopter. The 100 plus delegates exclusively occupied three luxury hotels and were ferociously protected by the Swiss Army, police and intelligence personnel. In addition, the Bilderberg group has its own private security force that boasts a number of snarling attack dogs. Members of the public who are resident in the hotels are brusquely moved out a day prior to the arrival of the great and the good.

The locations chosen for these elite shindigs change each year. Last year’s forum was held at the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce leadership Centre, King City, on the outskirts of Toronto. The “CICB Centre” is known as Canada’s “Bohemian Grove” - named after the exclusive retreat in California, which hosts a luxurious meeting each year for the rich, famous and influential to relax and socialise with their peers. What few reports are available of the annual Bohemian Grove get-together, tell of strange, nocturnal Masonic rituals being performed in front of roaring campfires. Over the years numerous former US Presidents has attended “Grove” gatherings.

This year’s Bilderberg meeting – the 45th annual event - took place at the lush Renaissance Pine Isle Resort, Lake Lanier island, Georgia, USA. A flying visit by Hilary Clinton, America’s “first lady” set the tone for subsequent discussions. Topics included modifying the public mind to accept “a world without borders” – and expanding NATO to include former Warsaw Pact nations. Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, said that NATO had become “The United Nations world army” – according to a report published by The Spotlight, a populist American newspaper that single-handedly covers these events. Kissinger, The Spotlight reported, went on to add this achievement occurred “when American troops wore blue helmets in Bosnia, serving under a European commander who reported directly to the U.N. Security Council, with the President and Congress having no voice.”

Other subjects discussed included ways of improving the group’s secrecy, possibly by a change of name and “fast-tracking austerity measures and the EMU.” Also on the agenda were methods of “extending the influence of Transnational Corporations and banks over Western politicians,” according to Tony Gosling a Bilderberger watcher. “Austerity” is packaged under various PR rubrics designed to sanitise the impending upheaval on ordinary mortals. The end result, however, is that money flows from the public’s pocket to theirs. With it also goes the ability for the man in the street to define their own destiny.

Apart from a permanent “Steering Committee” of top-notch kingmakers, delegates are selected according to merit. There is no formal membership list. Britain’s Prime Minister, Tony Blair, attended the 1993 meeting. The 1997 meeting saw former Pentagon Chief of Staff Colin Powell, as a keynote speaker. His presence is said to signal his “anointment” as the future US president. Prior to his election, President Bill Clinton attended the 1991 meeting at Baden-Baden in Germany. Until then Clinton remained an obscure state governor unknown by the vast majority of Americans.

Yet as influential as it is, Bilderberg is just one of several inter-connected special interest groups that reign as de facto secret governments. Between them they wield massive, but clandestine clout. In the United States the Trilateral Commission sits at the forefront. The “Commission” is a “sister” organisation of Bilderberg - and has an interlocking leadership as well as sharing a common agenda.

Formed in 1972 at the estate of multi-billionaire, David Rockerfeller, a seventeen man “planning group” was formed to launch the Commission on to an unsuspecting world. Backed with Rockerfeller money, Zbigniew Brzezinski - then a professor at Columbia University - was chosen as Chairman. Some years earlier, Brzezinski called for “a community of the developed nations” to be formed. Drawn from America, Western Europe and Japan – this community, which he typified as the most “advanced in planetary consciousness” as a result of their “scientific and technological innovation,” was destined to rule the planet. Brzezinski’s stated in his book “Between Two Ages,” that “National sovereignty is no longer a viable concept” - a trumpet signal of elite plans aimed at removing national borders and identities.

By 1973, Jimmy Carter, till then a unknown hayseed from Georgia, had aligned himself with the Trilateral Commission, becoming a founding member. Three years later, in 1976, he was elected President and immediately commenced policies sanctioned by the Commission. Numerous members of his administration were also fellow members. None more so, than Brzezinski, who was placed in the enormously powerful National Security Adviser slot.

Critics, among them Senator Barry Goldwater, referred to the Commission as “David Rockerfeller’s newest international cabal.” Goldwater then added “it is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests…” Goldwater’s comments revealed the true-working of how President’s are made and elections won.

In his book “With No Apologies,” Goldwater states “David Rockerfeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski found Jimmy Carter to be their ideal candidate. They helped him win the nomination and the presidency. To accomplish this purpose, they mobilised the money power of the Wall Street bankers, the intellectual influence of the academic community – which is subservient to the wealth of the great tax-exempt foundations – and the media controllers represented in the membership of the CFR and the Trilateral.”

Disparaging democracy as unworkable, the Trilateralists proceeded to plan the carve up the globe into three principal and inter-related powers. These would be the United States of the America’s, the United States of Europe and a Pacific Union. Big business, and especially trans national corporations would become the effective masters of the world.

Embedded even deeper inside US domestic politics is the Council for Foreign Relations, known as the “CFR.” With a membership roster running into the thousands – and selected from all disciplines - it is the real creator of US foreign policy. In fact, since 1940, every US Secretary of State bar one, has been a member of the CFR or it’s younger brother the Trilateral Commission. Likewise every single Secretary of Defense (and before that Secretaries of War) have been members. Key Directors of Central Intelligence and almost every major US National Security Advisors have been drawn from the Council. Over the years it has grown to dominate White House appointments.

Today, President Clinton, in addition to having attended a Bilderberg meeting, also has membership in the CFR and the TC. His administration is staffed by almost one hundred CFR members. Before him President George Bush appointed no less than 95 CFRer’s to positions of political power. Such is the dominance of these “elite managers” that listing the names and titles of members who have served in the last four US administrations runs to a staggering 10 close-typed pages.

Whereas these and other organisations are likened to the visible arm of the global elite, the “inner sanctuary” is the sinister “Order of the Skull and Bones.” Immensely secretive, even to this day, the Skull and Bones lay at the pinnacle of absolute hidden power from which they direct World Inc. Formed over a century and a half ago, its origin dates back to the German Illuminati - a secret occult society whose agenda has always been global dominance.

The membership roster is a well-guarded secret although names do occasionally surface – including that of former President, George Bush. “Bonesmen” are forbidden from speaking of the bizarre Satanic rituals they practise. However, they are believed to worship death – and use as their symbol the “death’s head” emblem also worn by SS storm-troopers during WW11.

As we probe deeper into the “Order” and unravel the connections of their British associates, we discover that there is nothing “new” about the New World Order. In fact it dates back hundreds and possibly thousands of years. Along the way, history has deftly manipulated to eclipse the presence of those who create wars to further their occult aims.

TO BE CONTINUED…

An insider’s account of the NWO elite

“The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system and the economy of the world as a whole.” These revealing words were written by Dr. Carrol Quigley. An eminently respectable academic, he was granted access to secret records and archives that revealed the workings of the group in his book “Tragedy & Hope.” In his expose he explains how the one world system “was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences."

Bilderberg and press censorship

In his 6 May 1975, “Lombard” column of the Financial Times, journalist C. Gordon Tether published a critical account of the Bilderberg group. Saying “if the Bilderberg Group is not a conspiracy of some sort, it is conducted in such a way as to give a remarkably good imitation of one,” Tether was never again permitted to mention the secretive group. After a protracted censorship battle with the editorial management, he was sacked a year later. Other journalists were not slow to comprehend the significance of Tether’s critical “mistake.” Amongst many British media icons who have attended Bilderberg are Sir William Rees-Mogg; Andrew Knight and Frank Giles.

MI6 pushes Britain to join the European Union

The Sunday Telegraph in its issue dated 27 April 1997, published a telling story about how Britain’s politicians had been pushed into joining the fledgling EEC – forerunner of the EU - by the Secret Intelligence Service. A secretly funded unit of the Foreign Office linked to MI6 used public funds to initiate a covert propaganda drive aimed at convincing Britain to join the EEC. The campaign is said to have been backed by the CIA. As Prime Minister, pro European Ted Heath – an early Bilderberg attendee - was experiencing an up-hill struggle to convince the public and rebel politicians to support the move. Following a massive media campaign voters decided in favour.

THE NEW WORLD ORDER & ELITE THINK TANKS
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/new_world_order_2.htm
By David Guyatt

Part two

Banished by the Bavarian government in 1787, following the discovery of secret documents outlining its long-term plans to wrest control of the planet, the Illuminati went underground. Founded by Professor Weishaupt just 11 years earlier, in 1776, at the University of Ingolstadt, the Illuminati’s aim was to establish a New World Order through the use of revolution, warfare and strife.

With some foresight, Weishaupt had earlier allied his order with the powerful Masonic networks that were spreading like wildfire through Europe and America. These connections proved invaluable for the survival of Illuminism. By some accounts this secret doctrine found favour in England, at All Soul’s College, Oxford University – home of the secretive Rhodes-Milner “Circle.” This group, formed in deepest secrecy by Cecil Rhodes and Lord Alfred Milner, are credited with lighting the fuse that led to both World wars this century. Like the Illuminati, the “Circle” sought world domination and carefully orchestrated world events to ahcieve this goal.

In America, Weishaupt’s doctrine of a New World Order is, today, closely paralleled in the clandestine Order of the Skull and Bones – an elitist secret society formed at Yale University in 1833. The “Order” counts among its past and present membership the cream of America’s “Eastern Establishment.” This has included very senior political figures, including a recent former US President: George Bush.

Both groups have worked in unison for almost 100 years – always furtively and behind the scenes – Together they form the backbone of the so-called Anglo-American relationship – often referred to as the “Special relationship.” By all accounts, their furtive methods involve manipulating world events and forcing opposite ends of the political spectrum into collision. The resulting conflict, whether it be wars, revolution or financial crisis always benefits them personally, but are invariably designed to advance their carefully laid plans for global conquest.

Academic, Anthony Sutton revealed in part one of his book on the Order of the Skulll and Bones their origins and methods. The key to their success is Hegelian dialectics, Sutton believes. Confrontation and the ensuing disarray place additional power in their hands. The process is incremental and slow, so that it is not obvious to the uninitiated. Sutton emphatically states that based on a large file of internal Order documents in his possession, he can explain “why the West built the Soviets and Hitler; why we go to war, to lose …why the Churches have become propaganda founts, why historical facts are suppressed, why politicians lie.” The “Order” is behind all things, manipulating from the shadows. Also disclosed are the peculiar occult rituals that some observers insist are satanically inspired.

Each year The “Order” seeks to recruit 15 new members. These are carefully selected and “tapped” in the dead of night. Such is the Order’s ominous power and reputation few dare decline. Once tapped, the 15 neophytes are taken to the Chapter house located on the Yale Campus. There, they are initiated in the ways of the Order. Initiates are placed in a coffin and are chanted over. The ritual is designed to mimic his death and rebirth into society. Thereafter his is removed from the coffin, given robes bearing strange symbols and a bone with his name on it is tossed into the “bone heap.” Each new member is given a secret name. As part of the ritual initiates are sworn to silence and firmly instructed to deny membership. In addition they must reveal to all present, in minute detail, their most intimate sexual experiences and proclivities. This procedure is designed to create a long-life bond, which by all accounts it does: the fear of blackmail.

Significantly, the Order is powerfully geared to the outside world, rather than University life – which is used as a recruiting ground. Members always receive preferential treatment in their later employment and promotion comes easily. In a September 1977 article published in Esquire, journalist Ron Rosenbaum, stated that anyone in the so called Eastern Establishment that is not a member of the Skull and Bones, is almost certainly a member of either the Scroll and Key or Wolf’s Head. Both also are Yale secret fraternities and are, in Sutton’s view, part of the same network. Non-the-less it is apparent that the Order sits at the very pinnacle of power.

Listing all the names of those initiated into the order is difficult, due to the inherent secrecy. But it is known for example, that former US President George Bush was initiated in 1948. Other members include Averell Harriman (1913), McGeorge Bundy (1940), William Buckley (1950), Russell Wheeler Davenport (1923), Henry P. Davison (1920), Henry Luce (1920), William Taft (1878), William Whitney (1863), Senator John Kerry (unknown), Senator John Chafee (unknown) and Winston Lord Bones class of 1959 and present Chairman of the powerful CFR and a prominent Bilderberger).

Bonesman are also heavily involved with the Intelligence community. In fact the term “spooks” used to describe a clandestine agent, was originally Yale argot for a secret society member. According to Covert Action Quarterly there is a “Bones club” inside the CIA that promotes the careers of its members. Likewise Bonesman are well-represented in journalism and publishing. Henry Luce is famous for building Time-Life into a publishing empire with global reach. Richard Danielson was the former publisher of Atlantic Monthly, a magazine specialising in foreign policy issues.

According to German writer, F. William Engdahl - a graduate of Princeton University, and a expert on the international petroleum industry – all the major wars of this century have been caused by the Anglo-American establishment that controls banking and oil. In his heavily researched book “A Century of War,” Engdal attributes World wars one and two, Korea, Vietnam and the Gulf war on these Machiavellian schemers. In this regard he is in agreement with Sutton and other authorities that have painstakingly researched the subject. The correlation is interesting for the Bonesman are well known for their connections to the oil and banking professions.

The manner in which wars are created reveal the true nature of the Anglo – American “special” relationship, according to some observers. From WW11 onwards, the emphasis of this relationship shifted from London to New York, and has remained there ever since. But prior to 1939, the key political power rested in the boardrooms of London’s financial centre and amongst a small circle of powerful insiders able to direct foreign policy behind the scenes. Variously known as the Cliveden “Set,” the Milner “Kindergarten” or just simply the “Circle,” Professor Carrol Quigley charges them with being directly responsible for World Wars 1 & 11.

Lord Alfred Milner, along with selected members of his “kindergarten” – often referred to as the “Brotherhood” - was one of the key figures involved in establishing, in 1919, the Royal Institute for International Affairs. Known as “Chatham House, the RIIA was formed alongside the American Council for Foreign Relations in the wake of WW1. Chatham House had grown out of the “Round Table” groups that had been instigated at the wish of Cecil Rhodes. By all accounts Rhodes was, besides an active Freemason, a grand conspirator who planned a World Order under British auspices. To this end he prepared a number of wills stipulating how his immense wealth was to be spent to achieve this aim. His last will established the now prestigious Rhodes Scholarship that selects students from all over the world to attend Oxford University.

Rhodes dream of a world federated under the British flag initially resulted from his University days at Oxford. There he was mesmerised by John Ruskin, an academic with a mission. Ruskin had a low opinion of democracy and preached that a small elite should control the world. Gripped in a fever, Rhodes set about forming a secret society to further these aims. In 1891 this society was formed with a “Circle of Initiates” including, besides Rhodes, Lords Esher, Milner, Rothschild and Grey. These and later members devoted the rest of their lives to this quest. After his death, Rhodes secret society grew and prospered. In America it became knows as the “Eastern Establishment” according to Prof. Quigley – which as we have seen is also dominated by a secret society – The Order of the Skull and Bones.

If there is a key to understanding how the New World Order operates – clearly not so very new at all – it is necessary to return to Anthony Sutton’s “Magnus Opus” on the “Order.” In his second volume of the four part series, Sutton reveals how committed Bonesmen "create war and revolution" by artfully applying Hegelian dialectics that lies at the heart of Illuminism. Politically, left and right are played against each other to create a new synthensis. This dialectic is disarmingly known in foreign policy circles as “crisis management,” Sutton says. The art is to create a crisis, fuel it as necessary but always manage it. Following the resulting and all too apparent chaos, those who guide the New World Order digest another bite-sized chunk of hegemony.

Meanwhile, one aim of those who are said to control our destinies is almost achieved, some observers believe. The greater wealth of the planet is securely in the hands of the few. According to recent statistics almost 50% of the world’s riches are currently owned by a relatively small handful of the richest people. This process continues apace. At the same time sovereign power is being whittled away and transferred to supra-national bodies like the European Union.

The Secret University Connection

The Illuminati was founded on 1 May 1776 by Professor Adam Weishaupt, at the University of Ingolstadt. Later, in 1787, it was outlawed and is said to have gone underground. The Rhodes-Milner “Group” or Brotherhood was founded - apparently along secretive Freemasonic lines - at All Soul’s College, Oxford University in the late 17th century. The Order of the Skull and Bones was formed at Yale University in 1832. Financing for the latter derived from the opium trade that flourished in the far east around this time. This trade was principally established by the British East India Company and controlled by Baring Brothers bank. Later, the London branch of Rothschilds bank supplanted Barings in controlling the trade. According to some observers, today’s massive global trade in narcotics remains under the control of these shadowy groups.

The Secret Occult Rituals of the Skull and Bones

The new candidate for initiation into the 322 Chapter of the Order of the Skull and Bones, is presented in the character of a slave. Asked what has brought him to this condition, he ritually responds “Society, the State, Submissiveness, False Religion.” Next, a human skeleton – said to have been stolen from a grave – is pointed out to him. At the feet of the skeleton lay a crown and a sword. The initiate is asked whether this is a skeleton of a King, a Nobleman or a Beggar? Unable to say which it is, he is told “the character of being a man is the only one of importance. Amongst its initiates, the Order is known as “The Brotherhood of Death.” Not least, this has led to speculation regarding its close association with the rise of Hitler and Nazisim. One American journalist who wrote a feature article on the Order for Esquire magazine charged that remnants of Hitler’s own private collection of silver is now housed in the Order’s building at Yale University.

More Skull and Bones Occult Rituals

According to a Skull and Bones document unearthed in 1940, the Order’s so called “Sacred Room” has the following inscription etched into the arch wall above the entranceway” Who was the fool, who was the wise man, beggar or King? Whether poor or rich, all’s the same in death.” Members of the order are taught the value of “ambiguity and secrecy” as essential instruments for wielding power in later life. Writer’s Paul Goldstein and Jeffrey Steinberg say that Bonesmen are also taught that “although ideas have their place, to truly transform history, military force is almost always required.” They also claim that an integral part of Bones philosophy is the “Double-cross system,” represented by the crossed bones of the Order’s emblem. According to this, non initiates or outsiders - referred to as “Gentiles and vandals” can be readily lied to and manipulated to further the Order’s long-term global interests.

The Order and War

Bonesman, Henry Stimson, was the Secretary of War during WW11. His circle of close friends and advisers, many of them also Bonesmen, are credited with financing the rise of Hitler and Nazism. Stimson’s protégé, John McCloy, was appointed High Commissioner to Germany at the war’s end. During this time tens of thousands of Nazi war criminals were permitted to either escape or were actively recruited by the US military and intelligence community. The Stimson Circle, which additionally included Dean Acheson, Harvey and William Bundy, Averell Harriman and Gen. George Marshall are said to have been responsible for shaping America’s post war foreign policy to ensure the creation of the Cold war. Bonesmen are also believed to have been responsible for escalating the Vietnam war, knowing it couldn’t be won. Manufacturing war is part and parcel of the Order’s secret Hegelian dialectic that by forcing the clash of opposites, a new synthesis is formed. This, ultimately, will result in a New World order under their control.

The Yom Kippur War

Author F. William Engdahl believes that the October 1973, Yom Kippur war between Israel, Egypt and Syria, was orchestrated by Dr. Henry Kissinger – then the National Security Adviser to President Nixon. A protégé of David Rockerfeller – a banker and oil Baron – Kissinger worked to further the goals of the Bilderberg Group, who decided in their May 1973, meeting in Sweden to hike the price of oil by 400%. The purpose of this strategy was designed to financially cripple Germany and Japan – seen as emerging and competeing financial powers. However, the primary purpose was to ensure the resulting hundreds of billions in “Petro-dollar” were invested in London and New York banks. This, would support and stabilise the dollar which, following its de-coupling from the Gold standard in 1970 was under intense pressure to devalue.

_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
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Whitehall_Bin_Men
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PROOF NWO & ILLUMINATI ARE REAL & HISTORY IS A LIE

Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLXvmZiEGWo
Icelandic Watchman 3,053,396 views
Published on 2 Mar 2015
This video blocked in 51 countries WHY??? try to dispute this please, We have all been duped. The world is not what we have been told, and is run by unbelievably sick Satanic "people".

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'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q&A with Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson talked about his book, The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook, on the power of social networks throughout history and their influence in the present.

The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook,



The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook

Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgKhsq7FQQw
March 14 2018
Niall Ferguson and Brian Lamb for CSPAN


Niall Ferguson
It's the kind of genre that looks like history, and usually involves some historical narrative, but it's nearly always detached from any scholarship. There's fake history as well as fake news. And most conspiracy theory history is fake history.

00:02:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
This makes it very difficult for the professional historian to write about these subjects. I mean, who wants to write about the Illuminati if most that is already out there is crazy stuff.

00:02:34
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And who wants to really talk about the Freemasons of the American Revolution? If you write about that, won't you just find yourself on the same shelf in the bookshop as the crazy books?

00:02:46
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I've noticed over my career, that these actually quite interesting and important subjects have been abandoned by professional historians and left to the cranks and the conspiracy theorists.

00:02:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And that's a pity because there are stories to be told about all of them; about the Illuminati, about the Rothschild's, you name it, there is some history there, but it's just very different history from the conspiracy theories.

00:03:13
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And part of the point of "The Square and the Tower" is to say, we should be able to talk about these subjects without being classified with the cranks and the conspiracy theorists.

00:03:24
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Before we get too far into the book, let's catch up about you. I mean, you're well known in some circles in this country, for things like "The Ascent of Money", PBS series – documentary series. What was that, and when did you do it?

00:03:38
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Ten years ago, I published a book and produced a television series called, "The Ascent of Money", a financial history of the world. And this series was designed to give people some historical context for the crisis that I saw coming.

00:04:02
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, 2006, '07 I was writing quite a lot about the coming financial crisis. What struck me when I would spend time on Wall Street was that the people who were running the investment banks knew no financial history beyond their own careers. They certainly weren't prepared for a financial crisis on the scale of 1929, which was what they got with the failure of Lehman Brothers.

00:04:24
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I'm a great believer that historians can help us with the present and even with the futures that we contemplate. What I tried to do in "The Ascent of Money" was to say, look here, Wall Street, the chances are very high that a major financial crisis will happen. That's what history leads us to expect.

00:04:35
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
What can we learn about the financial system from history? I don't really understand anything until I know it's history. That's how I operate.

00:04:41
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I wanted to tell this story of money, where do banks come from, what's the bull market, what's the stock market? Why do we buy houses with loans called mortgages? So, I wrote a book that essentially gave the reader a sense of where the financial system came from and why it was very likely to suffer a major crisis.

00:04:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The crisis happened just after the book came out. I think Lehman went bust just a few weeks after the publication of the book, which was interesting, and meant that I had at least something to say about what was happening in real time as financial history was being made.

00:05:14
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Ten years later, this book is trying to do something similar for Silicon Valley; that is to say, I'm saying to Silicon Valley, history applies to you. History didn't begin with the Google IPO or the founding of Facebook. History goes a long way back and it's relevant to you.

00:05:32
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But I'm also saying to readers interested in history, network science is pretty important, and historians need to understand it. And if you don't really understand how networks work, you will not only fail to understand the present, but you'll actually have some trouble understanding the past.

00:05:45
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, it's a bit like "The Ascent of Money" goes to Silicon Valley. That's a rough characterization of this book. And any of your viewers who enjoyed "The Ascent of Money", will I hope, enjoy this book.

00:05:54
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Where did you grow up?

00:05:55
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
In Glasgow, in Scotland. You can tell from my odd accent that I'm from the British Isles, but I actually come from that peculiar part of the British Isles; Scotland, which is one of those countries with a superiority complex, rather than an inferiority complex.

00:06:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Most small countries have an inferiority complex. But the Scots have long thought that they invented the modern world, that they run the United Kingdom, and that where ever they go they will find traces of their forefathers' endeavors, including the United States with its many traces of Scottish influence. But that's where I grew up and I was encouraged to think that Scotland had a special mission to transform the world.

00:06:46
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
And what were your parents doing?

00:06:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
My father was a doctor. My mother, now retired, was a physicist who taught physics. So, I come from a relatively scientific family. My sister is a professor of physics at Yale. She's the clever one.

00:07:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I was the black sheep of the family in that I drifted into what some people think of as a social science and others think of as one of the humanities; history. So, I study the change particles called human beings, and the way in which they behave.

00:07:29
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But I think my – my family gave me a couple of advantages; at least two. And one was a tendency to think about the world with the framework of the Scottish Enlightenment. Through my grandfathers' I was the heir of a certain intellectual legacy that goes back to Adam Smith and David Hume, and the great thinkers of 18th century Scotland.

00:07:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And I think the other advantage that they gave me was to think of history as a branch of literature. So, there were history books in the house, but side by side with the great books of fiction. And so, I was introduced at an early stage to the idea that above all, history must be literature. It must be readable.

00:08:16
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
A. J. P. Taylor was a historian that I remember occupying some space on my parents' bookshelves. And that inspired me to find history attractive as an intellectual endeavor, but also as a literary endeavor.

00:08:27
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Your college education; how extensive was it and where was it?

00:08:32
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Well extensive is a funny word to use because in some ways an Oxford education is intensive. One reads history. I spent three years as an undergraduate at Oxford reading history.

00:08:48
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That was a wonderful opportunity. I had grown up in Glasgow. To me, Oxford was nirvana; a kind of promised land of not only stunning architecture, but also brilliant minds.

00:09:02
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I couldn't believe that it was possible to be employed to sit in a book lined study and divide one's time between reading books, writing books, and talking about books with students.

00:09:18
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
These Oxford dons – we would call them professors in the United States, seemed to me the luckiest human beings alive. And all I wanted to do once I saw their lifestyle, was to have it myself, to have a lifetime spent in this realm of books.

00:09:35
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
It was very inspiring to be at Oxford in the early 1980's for another reason. Britain was in a great state of fervent. Margaret Thatcher was prime minister. Most universities lent in the direction of the left.

00:09:50
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
To be pro-factual was to be in a minority. We were – I became one of these young Thatcherites. We were a feisty minority who enjoyed making the case for the Thatcher government.

00:10:03
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I had a certain political education at Oxford, as well as an academic education. And Oxford being Oxford, unlike American universities, there's only one exam. It's at the end; finals. Everything hinges on that.

00:10:18
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
What you do in the proceeding years is kind of up to you. I didn't go to many lectures. In fact, I went to hardly any lectures. I did learn to play the double bass. I dabbled in student journalism. I found that I couldn't act.

00:10:34
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I tried pretty much everything except sport and found that I wasn't really that good at any of the things other than writing history essays so that the final -- in the final phase in final year, I reverted back to being a historian just in time.

00:10:51
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
When you're talking about networks in your book, Oxford is a network, Magdalen College, I would assume is a network.

00:10:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Absolutely.

00:11:01
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
There are some 35 colleges are more at Oxford. What does it mean for you that you were at Magdalen College inside Oxford as far as networking?

00:11:11
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Absolutely. To go to Oxford and to go to one of the most prestigious -- the most prestigious college, Magdalen, is to be admitted into the network of the British elite.

00:11:23
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Right there, the contemporaries that you meet will include future leaders, will include future editor, there’s a sense in which Britain is still, as it has been for centuries, run by people who went to Oxford and Cambridge.

00:11:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
You go to the Oxford Union which is the debating society, what you're really seeing is students preparing for the House of Commons, practicing, getting the hang of standing at the dispatch box. And some my near (ph) contemporaries of gone to great things.

00:11:57
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Rather to my own incredulity, Boris Johnson is now the foreign secretary. That's not something I would have predicted back then, it's probably something that he would've predicted.

00:12:11
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I think Oxford admits you to the network that is sometimes called the establishment, that still to a surprising extent runs Britain. I didn't really appreciate that at the time I think.

00:12:25
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I only retrospectively appreciate the extent to which that was admission into a very important network that extends into politics, that extends into the media, and that extends into business.

00:12:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And the -- from that point onwards, in your life without even necessarily being aware of it, when you meet somebody at a cocktail party in London, a transaction occurs which goes like this, oh, did you go to Oxford?

00:12:55
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Oh, which college? When were you there? Do you know X? Oh, yes, I know Y. Now people who haven't been admitted to that network can’t play that game.

00:13:06
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
It's the central activity of social networks, exchanging information and building a connection that then has utility in the present. Because of course if you and I went to Magdalen, we have a set of common experiences and that builds a kind of trust.

00:13:26
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, the chances are that any future transaction that we embark on or project that we decide to do together that will be based on that underlying mutual understanding. That’s how social networks work and Oxford introduced me to that world.

00:13:45
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
In your book, you talk about Oxford and how it relates to Cambridge. I want to get back to this in a second. I want you to tell us about the apostles.

00:13:56
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes.

00:13:57
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
But after you graduated and came to this country, how many different places have you taught in the United States?

00:14:06
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I first taught at New York University for a couple of years and then went to Harvard. And I was professor at Harvard for 12 years and only recently moved to Stanford, so three. I’ve given multiple guest lectures here, there and everywhere, but those three institutions of the ones where I've spent time.

00:14:29
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
So who are or were or can be an apostle and what are they?

00:14:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Cambridge had a very remarkable institution that doesn't really have equivalence anywhere else. The Cambridge apostles were -- are because it still exists a society of extreme intellectual exclusivity.

00:14:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
It dates back to the 19th century. It was an intellectual discussion society. Members would meet, give papers, be brilliant, eat sardines on toast. That's about it. Doesn't sound like much, does it?

00:15:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But it was really and remains one of the most prestigious societies that one could be elected to. And the process of election was an arduous one. Only rarely were elections made. So, the apostles remained relatively few in number.

00:15:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
It was probably the height of its intellectual influence in the 1910s and 1920s, when John Maynard Keynes, certainly the most influential economist of the 20th century was a member, along with his friend Lytton Strachey, one of the great iconoclastic writers of that generation.

00:15:47
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And they look down from a great height on everybody else. They regard himself, not without some cause as very clever indeed.

00:15:58
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
You’re write, they were in a word insufferable.

00:16:03
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
They were pretty insufferable actually. Reading the younger Keynes's correspondence of the subject makes you realize that a very exclusive network has a kind of nasty side to it. It was quite misogynistic.

00:16:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The apostles of the early 1900s, certainly tended gay, nothing wrong with that. But the kind of misogyny that kept -- accompanied that particular chapter in Cambridge history doesn't look well today. But they were primarily an intellectual group.

00:16:44
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
One interesting consequence of their elitism and that's the only word for it was a disdain for all the conventional wisdom that Britain had inherited from the Victorians. So, if you are the crème de la crème intellectually, naturally, you're far too clever to believe in free trade, or gold stand or any of the things of that the Victorians believed in. The British Empire.

00:17:03
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, the interesting about the apostles was that by the 1920s they were questioning most of the conventional wisdom of the previous generation. But what then happens, and this is really why I write about the apostles in the book, was something surprising, they got hacked by the Russians. Sounds rather like a contemporary problem, there’s nothing new under the sun.

00:17:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The Soviet intelligence agency, the KGB had a very ingenious strategy in the 1930s and that ingenious strategy was to try to recruit agents, operatives from within the commanding heights of the English establishment.

00:17:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And they hit on the idea, man named Deutsche was the agent who did this, of recruiting at Cambridge and trying to get members of the apostles. And they succeeded. So that these three of the Cambridge spies were members of the apostles, including Guy Burgess.

00:17:46
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And this was probably the most successful intelligence operation of the 20th century, in the sense that by getting these recruits from the exclusive intellectual elite, they got access to key institutions in the British establishment, including the intelligence services and the foreign office.

00:18:09
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And they had really high-caliber people on the payroll supplying intelligence from the British government to Moscow in the 1930s, 40s, 50s and the quality and quantity of the intelligence were astonishing. So, what does this illustrate?

00:18:27
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Well it illustrates one important feature of networks, they’re not very good at defending themselves. The apostles didn't really ever consider the possibility that the KGB would penetrate them and actually recruit members of the society to work for Soviet intelligence.

00:18:48
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But it happened, and it proved an enormous vulnerability for Western intelligence in the early phase of the Cold War, as well as in World War II. It took a great deal of effort to expose the Cambridge spies.

00:19:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Why was it so difficult? Was it because they were incredibly good at covering their tracks? No, they actually made lots of mistakes that should've given them away.

00:19:17
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But because they were they were, because they had the seal of approval not just Cambridge University, not just Trinity College, but the apostles, people found it impossible to believe that they would be spies.

00:19:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And that credibility that they had from their network and the protection that they enjoyed from other members of the network explains why the Cambridge spies were able to offer it for so long and took so long to be detected and so long to be exposed.

00:19:52
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
You also talk about the -- excuse me, the Bloomsberg (ph) group and I want to read a couple of sentences because it's -- you talk about networking. You have to describe some of these people later.

00:20:06
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
As with the apostles, it was once again sexual relationships that defined the network. Grant slept not only with Keynes, Litton Strachey, Adrienne Stevens and Vanessa Bell, but with David Garnet.

00:20:21
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Vanessa Bell slept not only with Grant but also with Roger Fry and sometimes even her own husband, Clive. Keynes, slept with Grant, Garnett, Strachey and eventually the Russian ballerina, (Lydia Lopokonova), (Lopoca), Lopokova.

00:20:37
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
So, what in the world is that all about because there are men and women, women sleeping with men, women sleeping with men and all that. Give us the background.

00:20:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The (inaudible) group were very advanced in their sexuality.

00:20:54
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Who were they?

00:20:55
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Well, they were connected with the Apostles. Keynes was a member of both groups. (Brimsby) was a looser grouping really of intellectuals and artists and writers who once they had left Cambridge and moved to London, initially lived in housing in the Bloomsbury district of London.

00:21:16
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And it was a social group. Its impact on the history of English modernism was enormous. But I think what is fascinating about the group as a social network as you’ve just described is this curious complexity of their sexual relationships with one another.

00:21:35
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
With Keynes as a bisexual having relationships with both men and women, since quite modern, you could probably do a network graph of Hollywood in the recent past that might look a little bit like this.

00:21:50
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But the reason for analyzing the network is that it was so influential. And people still think of Virginia Wolf as one of the most important figures of British literature in the 20th century.

00:22:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
She was very much part of Bloomsbury just as Keynes was a towering figure in economics. These, these people shaped modernism in Britain and their influence was certainly felt across the Atlantic and the United States.

00:22:27
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I think what made them impactful was not just that they as individuals were very talented though they definitely were, it was the fact that the network, Bloomsbury Network, projected the talents and promoted the talent through publishing, through the media and with Keynes ultimately in government because Keynes became really a very important civil servant in the first and second world wars.

00:22:54
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, networks matter because they -- they can take an important individual and force multiply, as we might say today.

00:23:02
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Their influence as individuals was significantly enhanced by the membership of the network. No man is an island, that’s an old observation goes all the way back to John Donne, the 17th century poet.

00:23:15
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
One sees in “The Square and the Tower” how very important this is. That even the most tiring genius, and there’s no question that Keynes had a phenomenal intellect, is embedded in some sense in -- in a social network, and some networks are just more effective than others.

00:23:32
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And Bloomsburg was very effective at advancing its collective interests; its collective commitment to modernism, to the great challenge to Victorian ideas that that was so important in the 20th century.

00:23:46
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Let me put up on the screen, excuse me, a picture of “The Tower and the Square” and tell us why you named your book that and where this tower and square is. You’ll see it on that screen.

00:23:58
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The title of a book is an important thing because without the right title, your -- your book may fail. And if I’d called the book “Networks and Hierarchies,” we probably wouldn't be sitting here because that's kind of a turn-off title. I was racking my brains for a better title than “Networks and Hierarchies” and suddenly remembered Siena.

00:24:20
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Now your viewers will include people who been to that lovely Italian town and who will have walked around the Piazza Del Campo and they will have stood in the shadow of the (Toradol manager).

00:24:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
This is a perfect juxtaposition of the two central ideas this book is about. In the town square in the Piazza, the Sienese mingle, meet, exchange, trade, even engage in horse races. But it’s the realm of social networks.

00:24:47
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
There’s nothing structured about what happens there, except maybe the horse race. In the tower and the Palazzo Pubblico which it’s attached to, that's where hierarchical structures of governance existed.

00:25:01
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
When it was a republic, Siena was run out of the Palazzo Pubblico, that's where power resides. And power tends to be hierarchically structured even C-SPAN probably hasn't org chart at the top of the org chart there will be the chief executive or president, or whatever the title is.

00:25:20
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And as you go down the org chart, you'll find yourself and that's how most organizations and certainly most governments are constructed – hierarchically.

00:25:30
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Networks of a completely different architecture, they don't necessarily have somebody at the top. If you want, you can think of them as being horizontal, flat whereas governments, states, hierarchies, are vertical.

00:25:45
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So “The Square and the Tower” is about the relationship between these two forms of organization. The square where social networks reside and the tower where hierarchical orders of governance reside.

00:25:58
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Go back to you for a moment, where you live now?

00:26:02
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I now live in Northern California, not far from the Stanford campus.

00:26:06
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
What do you do in Northern California?

00:26:09
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I’m a fan of the Hoover Institution which is part of Stanford University. And -- so I spend my days heart of the Stanford campus. Though I mostly engaged in research now, I’m not teaching.

00:26:26
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
I want to show you some video of somebody you're very close to, an individual you know very well, and tell us how this person fits into your life.

00:26:31
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Video Begins)

00:26:32
UNIDENTIFIED PARICIPANT
There is something within Islam, inherent in Islam, that inspires, insights, and (inaudible) millions of people to engage in what our president euphemistically calls non-violent, no he calls it violent extremism.

00:27:03
UNIDENTIFIED PARICIPANT
(Video Ends)

00:27:05
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
That was in 2015 during the Obama Administration. Who is that lady?

00:27:10
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That is my wife, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has spent most of the last, let’s see, 17 years thinking, writing, and talking about the problem of Islamic extremism and the difficulty that we have and have had since 9/11 in dealing with networks of terrorism and of violence but also networks of, she used the phrase inadvertently then, nonviolent extremism.

00:27:35
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The networks that preach radical ideas without necessarily putting them into practice, those nonviolent extremists are in some ways a necessary precondition for the violent extremists.

00:27:50
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
People don't just go straight to terrorism. They have usually been radicalized beforehand. So, my wife works on this incredibly important subject, these terrorist networks kill a lot of people every year, tens of thousands around the world, and she's a very courageous woman.

00:28:10
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
She's my heroine. She combines brilliance with bravery and beauty and I'm the luckiest man you’ve ever interviewed because I’m married to her.

00:28:21
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
How many children do you have?

00:28:23
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
She and I have two children. I have three older children by my first marriage, so I have a grand total of five.

00:28:30
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
You say in your book that you thought maybe by the time the book was published, you would have another Campbell in the family. Do you have another Campbell in the family?

00:28:40
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I believe that came true. Our youngest son was born last October.

00:28:46
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Why a Campbell. Why did you care?

00:28:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
My father's name was Campbell. My father died a couple of years ago when we heard the wonderful news that Ayaan was pregnant, it seemed suddenly self evident when we knew it was a boy.

00:29:06
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But of course, we could've her a girl if she’d been a girl because Campbell seems to be one of these names that works well for both sexes. But for me, it will always be a male name because that was dad’s name. It suddenly seemed obvious that we should call our son Campbell.

00:29:17
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
How long have you been married to her and how – what did network have to do with marrying her?

00:29:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That’s a good question. We’ll be celebrating our seventh anniversary this year. We met in New York City and I will remember it as long as I live, it was the depths of the financial crisis. And I’d been invited by a particular network to give a speech.

00:29:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The network in question was a thing called the Mont Pelerin Society which is essentially a network of economists who have a free market leaning. It originated in the post war period and was founded by the economist Friedrich Hayek, Keynes’ nemesis, Keynes’ arch rival.

00:29:58
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I was invited to give a speech about the financial crisis, and to answer the question, was this crisis the fault of the free market, the kind of question you would be worried about in early 2009 if you were an economist of that persuasion.

00:30:14
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I agreed. I was in a rather low point in my life, going through a divorce, what did I have to lose to get out of Cambridge and go to New York. By sheer good luck, Ayaan, who had left the Netherlands where she’d been a member of Parliament.

00:30:30
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
After the security situation there became intolerable for her, she had become a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute and was living in the United States, and came to that same meeting as a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute.

00:30:47
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And there we met. We were introduced by a delightful Australian friend, (Greg Lindsey). If you’ve read War and Peace, you’ll remember the moment Pierre sees Natasha and everything stops.

00:31:00
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I had that moment that night in the Union League Club in New York. Clubs are important in the history of networks and the Union League Club is a venerable New York club.

00:31:11
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
There we all were, supposedly to talk about the financial crisis. The only thought that I had in my mind that night, even as I was speaking about the financial crisis, was how on earth I could get (Ian Hersey Ally’s) phone number.

00:31:27
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
She gave it to you that night?

00:31:30
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I may have taken a little longer. But we got there.

00:31:35
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Is there still a (fatwa) issued against her?

00:31:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes in that death threats continue to be made.

00:31:44
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Does she have to be physically protected by security?

00:31:48
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes.

00:31:48
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
And does she live out with you in Northern California?

00:31:52
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
One of the things they tell you about security is not to discuss your security. Suffice to say because she is a former Muslim, an Apostate, who speaks out against the extremists.

00:32:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
She has faced recurrent death threats. The most spectacular was when Theo van Gogh was murdered in the streets of Amsterdam when they were working on a film together.

00:32:15
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And on van Gogh’s body was pinned a note by his murderer saying that Ayann would be next. These threats of violence have been a recurrent feature of her life since then. And therefore, we cannot drop our guard. We have to assume that there is a risk.

00:32:38
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
After Charlie Hebdo, after the murders of Stephane Charbonnier, the editor of the satirical French magazine, we had to be -- redouble our vigilance because Ayaan’s name is on the same list of 11 people that was published by Al-Qaeda in 2013 under the heading, A Bullet For Allah.

00:32:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, this is no laughing matter for us. The threat is a very real one and we have to take all the precautions we can to keep her and our -- our sons safe.

00:33:10
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
I’m not so sure I’m pronouncing this correctly, but is Tsinghua University still something that you’re associated with?

00:33:19
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes. I go to China a couple of times a year to Tsinghua, which is one of the two big universities in Beijing. For me, there are two huge questions that historians in the future will have to grapple with when they write about our time.

00:33:32
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
One of them is the problem of Islamic extremism and the violence associated with it, the fundamental problem of how does Islam adapt or not to modernity and the other is the rise of China.

00:33:43
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And while Ayaan has devoted so much of her life to understanding the Islam problem, I see myself as able to contribute more to the question of China’s rise. So, I think one can only really understand this by going there.

00:34:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I wish I were a better educated man. I do not speak the language. But I have spent a lot of the last 10 years trying to understand modern China better. And since I’m, by training, an economic historian and it is fundamentally an economic question, it preoccupies me a good deal.

00:34:16
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Are you involved with the Schwarzman College?

00:34:18
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes.

00:34:18
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
And the reason I bring it up -- because I looked up the advisory committee of the Schwarzman College and it just seemed to me to be one of the great networks that you could possibly put together.

00:34:26
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Absolutely.

00:34:27
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
I’m going to read down the list (quick). Sarkozy, Tony Blain, Brian Mulroney, Kevin Rudd from Australia, Henry Kissinger, Colin Powell, Hank Paulson, Jim Wolfensohn, Bob Ruben, Condy Rice, Rick Levin, used to be the president of Yale, Richard Haass, the Council on Foreign Relations, Yo-Yo Ma and others. If I were an outsider, I’d look at it and say that’s the Illuminati, it’s the Council on Foreign Relations, it’s a -- and what does that mean?

00:35:00
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes. Well it means that Steve Schwarzman, who’s the brains and the money behind the Schwarzman has the Rolodex of Rolodexes. And Steve was able to bring this group together as well as lesser fry like me to do the teaching.

00:35:17
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
There are two points that I think one can make. The first is that clearly there is an enormously important network -- and you’ve just listed some of the key nodes in that network.

00:35:31
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
You could find similar names, similar combinations of names if you went to the World Economic Forum or the Council on Foreign Relations, or you just hung out in New York in the Four Seasons.

00:35:46
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
This is a real elite network. And it’s very important to recognize that it exists and is not dreamt up by conspiracy theorists. It’s not an invention. It’s mostly men (who) know one another.

00:36:01
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Second point. This is an elite that seems, in this case, to be trying it’s best to do something that I think is good. Namely, to build a new kind of network that connects China to the west.

00:36:15
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The Schwarzman Scholarship Program was dreamt up by Steve as a kind of version of the Rhodes Scholarships, which used to bring people to -- still bring people to study in Oxford.

00:36:29
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And the Steve Schwarzman vision was well we need to do something similar so that there is more understanding between the future leaders of China and the future leaders of western countries. I think that’s a very good idea. I think the program is a terrific innovation.

00:36:50
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And I see when I go there, terrific students from all around the world -- not just Americans, it’s from all around the world -- getting to understand China better and studying alongside Chinese students at what is the equivalent of MIT or Harvard in China.

00:37:08
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Have you been to the Bilderberg meetings?

00:37:12
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes.

00:37:13
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Have you been a member of the Trilateral Commission?

00:37:19
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
No.

00:37:19
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Barney Miller, the television show. This is a 42 second clip. 1981 was when this happened, and this is just a television show. Let’s run.

00:37:25
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Video Begins)

00:37:26
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
All right, what is the Trilateral Commission?

00:37:28
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
It’s an organization founded in 1973 by David Rockefeller to bring together business and political leaders from the United States, Europe, Japan, so they could work together through better economic and political cooperation between their nations.

00:37:45
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
Well that’s what they’d like us to believe. But you see, what they’re really up to is a scheme to plant their own loyal members in positions of power in this country, to work to erase national boundaries, create an international community. And in time, bring about a one world government with David Rockefeller calling the shots.

00:38:09
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
(Video Ends)

00:38:10
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Sir, what do you think?

00:38:12
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Well there you have the conspiracy theory that we were talking about earlier. That they say they’re meeting in order to improve the world and improve economic policy coordination, but actually they’re hatching a plan to erase national boundaries and establish world government under David Rockefeller.

00:38:30
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, the stated objectives are the objectives and the notion that there is going to be a world government at the end of it is the fantasy. Now, I can’t speak for the Trilateral Commission, I’m not involved with that. But I can assure you that although the meetings of the Bilderberg Group are closed, nobody ever mentioned world government to me at those meetings.

00:38:54
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
On the contrary, I’m always struck by the extent to which at such gatherings the discussion is reactive. You know, here’s another fine mess the world is in. Is there anything we can do about it.

00:39:06
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
You don’t have a strong sense of there being control. Even the word power seems strangely inappropriate. This network is commenting on the world, exchanging ideas.

00:39:17
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I’m sure there’s an element of business involved, too. But we shouldn’t exaggerate the power of even the most exclusive networks. What’s striking to me when I interact with these groups is not their power, but often their sense of powerlessness.

00:39:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
If you think about the events of 2016, just to take an example. Not many members of the supposed world government planned that Britain would vote to leave the European Union and that Donald Trump would become president of the United States.

00:39:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Donald Trump is definitely not somebody who gets invited to those meetings. So then -- or for example, take the financial crisis, the events of 2008, ’09. Nobody said there are the Bilderberg meeting in 2008 saying, I think what we really need for the world government is a massive financial crisis.

00:40:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
No, what’s striking when you spend time in these rarified circles is the lack of power. Influence, yes. These people, the people who are involved with the Schwarzman College are very influential people. But I think that power tends to be exaggerated.

00:40:23
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And if there is a world government being put together, it's not doing – it's not doing very well. It's not going very well. But I don’t ever think that's ever been the project. It's interesting actually to mention David Rockefeller.

00:40:38
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I read the other day that the Rockefeller, who's network predates at the age of the Internet, and existed on a giant Rolodex, was one of the biggest networks of – probably of all time in the sense that with the limits of technology, there's only so many people that you can keep a tab on.

00:40:55
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
A 100,000 names, I seem to remember we're in this giant system of index cards, including some of the names that you read. Certainly, Henry Kissinger was in that list. I'm in the midst of writing Kissinger's biography.

00:41:09
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And for me parts of the way to understand Kissinger's rise from being an academic and a public intellectual to being an extraordinary influential Secretary of State, is to understand that network.

00:41:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And to understand the ways in which it worked, so that his influence extended beyond government, extended across borders was in many ways global. To me this is historically, very interesting.

00:41:34
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But one has to talk about it and write about it without exaggerating the power of the network. The influence, yes, but I think the power was more circumscribed. Much as was true in the case of the Rothschild Bank, which I wrote about back in the 1990s.

00:41:47
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Yes, the Rothschild's we're probably the richest people in the world in the 19th century. And their banks were tremendously influential in the way that the bond market evolved and therefore in the way that governments could borrow.

00:41:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But at the time conspiracy theorist said that they had total power over the world, that they determined whether there was war, or whether there was peace. That they control the central banks, et cetera. Well, I showed in my book, the World's Bank, and that that was mostly untrue.

00:42:13
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That the Rothschild's couldn't determine war and peace, and very often would be frustrated, and would suffer losses when wars broke out. So, I think the challenge for this story and who wants to write about networks, is striking that balance between delineating the influence, trying to measure it and calibrate it. And also identifying the limits of the network's power.

00:42:40
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Fourteen years ago, Henry Hertzberg was here. He had a book. He had been a speechwriter in Jimmy Carter's administration. He spent time -- lots of time at the New Yorker magazine.

00:42:52
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
And this comment that he made near -- in the middle of the interview has always stayed with me. It's kind of the reverse of what you're – we're talking about when it comes to conspiracy. This is -- I asking the question of when you were in the White House, what's the one thing that you brought out that you didn't expect? And here is his answer from 2004.

00:43:16
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Video Begins)

00:43:17
HENRY HERTZBERG
You realize how little – how there really isn't anybody in charge. That these are just human beings that I believe before I went there that somewhere up there, there was somebody in charge. That really – the things were being taken care of.

00:43:34
HENRY HERTZBERG
And I don't think this is just Carter. I think this is true of every White House. You learn that it's just people up there and they're not that different from the people you know.

00:43:47
HENRY HERTZBERG
(Video Ends)

00:43:48
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
What do you think?

00:43:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I think that's about right. One of the great illusions of American journalism, especially at the moment, is that it's all about the President, who has a quasi monarchical power, and whose every whim and action, and tweet determines the fate of nations. One of way of thinking about the presidency is to think of it as – as a network.

00:44:15
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The White House itself is a collection of people working together. President's the most important node in the network, but he simply can't rule alone. He's not an absolute monarch.

00:44:30
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, in a recent article that was published in the Atlantic, I am my co-author for this piece, (Maddie Wringle-Cruise), did some network analysis of three administrations. We didn't look at Carter's. We looked at Nixon's, and we look at Bill Clinton's. And we looked at Donald Trumps.

00:44:52
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And we simply tried to map the network of power, because the structure of politics is as important as the personality of the President, especially in a Republic. And what was striking was that the similarities leapt out between Trump's administration and Bill Clinton's in the first year.

00:45:12
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And Nixon's looked quite different. Partly because Nixon was a rather reclusive president, who liked to sit in his study with his yellow notepad and hated interacting with people. Whereas both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, outgoing personalities, who like to be in the room where it happens.

00:45:29
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, network analysis is a really quite important tool for helping us understand the structure of politics. It's not that there's no know there, there. Clearly there is -- there is power in the White House, but it is not entirely vested in the President.

00:45:43
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The president cannot act without his -- his advisors, without his Chief of Staff, his gatekeeper, without his Cabinet, the people running the major departments.

00:45:52
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And I think -- there is a tendency in American journalism increasingly to talk about the presidency as if it's a monarchy. And this is a mistake because it doesn't work that way. And I think anybody who enters the realm of power, as Henry Kissinger did in 1969 when he went to work for Richard Nixon, discovers that it's very different from the way they imagined it.

00:46:14
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And that this structure of this network around the President is really the key. It was something that Kissinger worked out very quickly for himself. Not everybody figures this out.

00:46:26
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And I think part of what happens in the first year of any administration is a certain churn, as those people who were perhaps terrific on the campaign, enter the realm of power, and find they can't make it work.

00:46:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I mean Steve Bannon comes to mind, in the case of the – of the Trump White House. But there were similar figures, which had come in with Clinton, had been part of Clinton's campaign, and did not really go the distance.

00:46:52
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, I think this is a fascinating way of thinking about politics and I -- a really valuable corrective in an age when the personality of the President, I think, is given far too much importance.

00:47:04
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
We picked this up from one of your footnotes. And – it's somebody – he's born in Sweden. He has a follow-ship on YouTube of 60 million people.

00:47:12
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
His name is PewDiePie. And – anybody watching this is going to think we've just gone off our rails here. But let's give you 23 seconds of what people are drawn to on the Youtube. And then you can explain how that fits in the book.

00:47:26
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Video Begins)

00:47:27
PEWDIEPIE
Hey guys. What's up? Welcome to another video. ((INAUDIBLE)). I'm sick, which is okay because I wanted to make this chill video for quite some time, showing off my figurine collection.

00:47:49
PEWDIEPIE
(Video Ends)

00:47:51
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
There's a lot more where that came from.

00:47:56
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Far too much.

00:47:57
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Why? Why is this important?

00:48:01
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Why did he make it into the footnotes? Well, the phenomenon of YouTube stars that you and I've never heard of is in itself interesting. It's a young person's genre and young people consume a lot of content via YouTube, Google and online TV channel like that.

00:48:26
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
What would seem to old guys like us, like benign (ph) self-indulgence, has tremendous support and interest. People spend a lot of time watching this stuff and a lot of people do it. What does this tell us? What it tells us is that the structure of the public sphere where ideas are exchanged, has changed radically in our time.

00:48:51
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
We've gone from a world of TV networks, which are relatively centrally controlled things, where decisions are made about content from up high, and that's how a TV network has always worked, to a new kind of network, which is exemplified by YouTube.

00:49:09
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
But one could also say the same of the Facebook, in which there is a great less -- great deal less centralization of decision-making. PewDiePie went viral, acquired, in enormous numbers – a number of followers by posting videos without any plan, I think, or any direction from on high.

00:49:27
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
It just happened. It went viral because his inane banter captured a center mood at the time and the veering between inanity and occasionally the controversial has a great appeal, it would seem. Inexplicable, though I find it.

00:49:41
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, in understanding the public sphere of the – our time, older people like us, have to make an effort to realize that new things are happening that are qualitatively different from what we're accustomed to when it comes to the generation of content. Content is being thrown at us and in a strange evolutionary process, some of it goes viral. Why does – why did he go viral?

00:50:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
When did he become so much more followed than presumably a whole bunch of other teenagers and twenty-something's, who were posting their videos and going nowhere. It’s impossible to say, because it’s not really about the content. Things often go viral just because they enter the network at the right point.

00:50:23
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Remember the network is a whole complex of nodes, some of which are better connected than others. And if a very well-connected person who already has a lot of followers says I like this PewDiePie video, then suddenly that video can go viral, even if its content is rather vacuous.

00:50:41
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That is the new world that we live in. Now, it’s decentralized in the sense that Eric Schmidt at Google didn’t say we need somebody to do inane videos. He’s got to wear headphones and have a beard, and let’s make the background pink.

00:50:55
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Nobody ever made that decision, nobody gave that command at Google. In that sense the content is spontaneously generated by the users. But then the Google and YouTube algorithms determine the readiness with which you will find that content through the search engine.

00:51:19
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The search engine ranks everything, and it tends to rank it not only by popularity, by the number of people who viewed it, but also by your – you as an individual, your preferences as a user, which Google and YouTube know from your past behavior.

00:51:33
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, we now are a new world in which algorithms, responsive to each individual user’s behavior, decide what gets ranked in search.

00:51:40
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
That is a completely different model for the public sphere than anything we’ve seen in the past. And most people, certainly most people aged older than 30 or 40, and certainly if you’re in your 50s like me, struggle to understand this.

00:52:01
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
In your chapter on Kissinger, and you’ve already talked about, you wrote a book already about him, you’re writing …

00:52:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Volume 1 is done, Volume 2 is pending.

00:52:09
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
… yes. OK. This quote, and then I’m going to show you some video from 1975. The best illustration of Kissinger’s argument was the abject failure of U.S. strategy in Vietnam. Here is Henry Kissinger in ’75.

00:52:20
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Video begins)

00:52:21
HENRY KISSINGER
I have always considered Indo-China a disaster. Perhaps partly because we did not think through the implications of what we were doing at the beginning …

00:52:36
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
Is we meaning you included?

00:52:39
KISSINGER
… well, I was a …

00:52:40
UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT
Or pre-you?

00:52:41
KISSINGER
… pre – pre my being in office.

00:52:44
KISSINGER
(Video ends)

00:52:45
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
If he thought it was a disaster, why didn’t he get us out of there right after the election?

00:52:53
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Well that’s a question for Volume 2. So, I should probably hold my fire, because I’m still plowing through …

00:52:58
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Do you have an answer?

00:52:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
… a mountain of material (inaudible) …

00:53:00
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
(Inaudible)

00:53:01
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
… historians should definitely do their research and their thinking before they come up with answers. I can give you a hypothetical.

00:53:07
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
First thing to say is that it’s true that Kissinger identified as a disaster in the late ‘60s. He went there, I show this in Volume 1, on a series of, of trips, and saw first-hand, I think the first was in ’65 or ’66, ’66 I think, saw what first-hand what was going wrong.

00:53:18
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And what was going wrong is relevant to this book because here was the great hierarchical entity called the U.S. government intervening in the war between North and South Vietnam, and failing completely to understand the networks, like the Vietcong, that were going to be so hard, ultimately impossible, to defeat.

00:53:41
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, war is a collision between a very hierarchical military that had essentially continued to operate on the same basis as in the Korean War and in World War II, with a command structure that was super centralized. This hierarchy could not win in Vietnam. I think that that’s a key observation. And Kissinger understood that.

00:53:59
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
His notes back from the late ‘60s of his trips to Vietnam make it clear that he identified the fundamental pathology of the American intervention. The second question is, was there some extremely easy way for the United States to exit in January 1969 when he, as national security advisor, entered the White House?

00:54:25
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And I think, hypothesis, to be decided as I write volume two, that nobody at the time seriously believed that you could just up sticks and leave when the scale of the American presence was at its peak. It had been escalated by Lyndon Johnson.

00:54:45
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, what did they do? What they did was radically and rapidly to reduce the U.S. military presence. And the Nixon administration Vietnamizes the conflict and the numbers of troops are dramatically and rapidly reduced.

00:55:04
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
And at the time, I think Kissinger had his doubts about that. It wasn’t his policy. At the time, the belief was you could do that and at the same time use air power, use bombing to force the North Vietnamese to the negotiating table and secure a diplomatic resolution.

00:55:20
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
At the time, that did not seem like such a crazy strategy. And it was only really a relatively radical fringe of campus leftists who made it seem simple, as in “Let’s just stop the war and come home.”

00:55:32
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
No decision-makers, including amongst Democrats, and the Democrats had after all got the U.S. into the war, were arguing for simply cutting and running.

00:55:41
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The whole question was, how can you – how can you downsize the involvement, how can you arrive at peace? And I think that’s how Kissinger thought – thought of the problem.

00:55:51
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
When’s that book going to be out?

00:55:53
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Now you’re asking a different question. Within three years.

00:55:57
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Let me ask you one thing, and you start off writing about this. The archives – the historical archives, hagiography and hierarchy and the way history is written that you don’t like.

00:56:09
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I think historians tend to go where the archives are, where the sources are. And sources tend to be in archives produced by hierarchical organizations like governments.

00:56:20
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
I mean, that’s just the way the world is ordered. Governments have understood, since the beginnings of written record, that power is in written records. That is how you understand the business of government, refer back to the decisions of previous governments.

00:56:37
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, historians naturally go to archives, that’s where the data, the sources, are. The problem is that the social networks that have played such a huge part in history don’t have an archive department that you can just go and consult.

00:56:52
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
How are you avoiding that, then? This is the last question, with the Kissinger biographies?

00:56:56
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Doing my best not only to look at multiple governments, after all, diplomacy is about governments. So, I’m looking at as many governments as possible to the point of overwhelming myself with material, but also then looking at the records of the student movement.

00:57:11
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
The most important variable in the Vietnam war was in many ways the opposition to it within the United States. And that was a network of campus radicals who were antiwar but were also anti a whole bunch of other things.

00:57:23
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
There was a whole range of issues they were mobilized about but the opposition to the war was the key organizing issue. So, I want to study that network. It ultimately circumscribed what Nixon and Kissinger were able to do in ways that at the beginning I think they underestimated.

00:57:39
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
So, all history needs to be at once the history of hierarchies, of governments, of corporations, and of networks of those informally organized things like the antiwar movement.

00:57:49
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
They didn’t really have a leader, you know? Who do you call if you want to speak to the antiwar movement? Nixon at one point goes out and tries to talk to the protestors. He goes out earnestly and meets with them in Washington and it’s a non-meeting of minds.

00:58:03
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Kissinger, who’d been a professor, understood better the futility of this endeavor. But there’s something to me very poignant about the president of the United States who stands at the very top of the most hierarchical of all structures, the federal government of the United States, going out and trying to connect with a bunch of hippie antiwar protestors, trying to establish some connection, believing that he could somehow persuade them to see that he was trying to end the war. And Kissinger’s like, what did you expect?

00:58:32
Brian Lamb
Brian Lamb
Out of time. Our guest has been Niall Ferguson, the book is called “The Square and the Tower: Networks and Power, from the Freemasons to Facebook.” We thank you very much for joining us.

00:59:22
Niall Ferguson
Niall Ferguson
Thank you.

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