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The secret plans to turn us all vegetarian
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blackcat
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already watched it. I do not eat meat. I could show you a video of cattle being slaughtered in the Halal way but it would be a very unpleasant thing to watch so I will refrain. I doubt the animal being blessed would make it fell any less pain or fear.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob wrote:

"As the New World Order feed off fear and suffering why would they make any efforts to reduce 'meat' production. It's the biggest blood sacrifice on Earth."

Why is the cow sacred?

The Vedic Scriptures refer to the cow as our mother. When we stop taking milk from our mother the cow gladly takes over the role of supplying milk. For this reason the cow is our mother.

Goats here cows are imported and it f.ing pains me to know how few people know that Goose is UKs traditional Christmas dish!!
These are the so called Patriots that want to go Iraq bash some poor innocents skull Sad

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
Jacob wrote:
But im sure he just saved their bodies for the museum rather than where their flesh would have gone to a slaughterhouse to profit some restaurants. .


you call it being saved?

But surely a living creature cannot be sacrificed for 'art'

Food has a noble honest purpose,
to murder animals for 'art' is bad enough but to then pay someone millions to keep doing it over and over again is just immoral
i find damien hurst's work obscene there is NO justification for it he is not an artist if he was why didnt he paint the cow or make a sculpture
what he did is like you would see in a vincent price horror film

and as expected, none of the vegans has a peep to say against the mutilation and defilement of a living sentient being for the purpose of 'art'[/b]

Damn if only the Romans called crucifixion Art. Sorry if it hits a raw nerve but I had to make a point!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelios wrote:
Cats were designed to eat meat as were we humans.

I am really disappointed, a guy mutilates an animal and it's offspring and then makes money from the mutilation and you vegans call it art.
How many cows were sacrificed as Hurst tried to get his 'art' just perfect. A cut here and a cut there he probably murdered a dozen to get his display right.

Really it shows me all i need to know about your morals. Using an animal for food is natural, it is noble and it is what humans were created to do.
Using and animal as a rug, or as a work of art, or as a display after being mutilated is not natural is not ethical. It is an abomination.

I find myself disagreeing for the 1st time here! When an animal is slaughtered I'd like to think all of the creature is being used and nothing wasted but sadly this is no longer true Sad (well at least in Western Society)
Leather/Hides twine fur tools etc you get the picture (oops no pun intended)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there were less problems because:
a the food was less genetically modified,
b there was also less overeating and
c people exercised more.

Now we have eating disorders, completely unnatural food and supermarkets in every town. We have so much choice and yet we are slaves to shopping.

Those good old days where people used to have conversations, walk for miles every day and play games are long gone.
Now the human race are group of disconnected empty souls moving around in metal cells on wheels, eating and drinking to fill the void of their spirit Crying or Very sad

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i ve read dairy foods are bad for prostate and i feel they make me fat so im cutting back and hope to be at a normL WEIGHT after losing 15 pounds

in usa its worse because they use bgh hormone ..why? to oversex us ?

the kids go into puberty sooner

most the food in usa isnt even ediable -its trash!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

festival of snickers wrote:

in usa its worse because they use bgh hormone

most the food in usa isnt even ediable -its trash!!


your not wrong
monsanto runs things and pumps food full of nonsense
but the uk aint far behind
monsanto's had factories here since the 1940's

try and buy bgh free dairy

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco_Destroyer wrote:
[When an animal is slaughtered I'd like to think all of the creature is being used and nothing wasted but sadly this is no longer true Sad (well at least in Western Society)
Leather/Hides twine fur tools etc you get the picture (oops no pun intended)


I dont disagree, if an animal is killed for food then all of it must be used, the leather, the bristlr, the jelly, the bonemeal as fertilizer.
It is wrong to waste any part of it.
But we were talking about the vegans going to see damien hurst's exibition and not condeming it.
No animal should be slaughtered for art or for fun

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Stelios and gang,

I also think all the parts of the animal should be utilised. The Native Americans used everypart of the buffallo. I think if an animal has to be sacrificed then it should not be wasted either.

Everyone has an opinion on Damien Hirst and yet very few have actually gone to his exhibitions. I by no means think Damien Hirst is a genius artist. He was picked up by the press and made sensational art. I went to see the work at The Turner Prize before all the hype actually. But even without reading his artist statement it achieved its purpose in shocking, repelling and aluring me.
The title also forces the viewer to think of cows in another way. As parents, as beings and as scientific specimens with very similiar biological makeup as ourselves. Both mammals with organs, breasts, stomache and heart.

I also am disturbed by the Hirst piece and generally condemn animal killing. However it is used as an example of the mass killing that goes on every day regardless. So I cant condemn whats already been done. I just dont give my money to slaughterhouses to do the dirty work for me.

I am very sure "they" wont make us go vegetarian. There is enough resources for everyone to go round but it doesnt help that most deforestation goes to grazing cattle. I understand culturally some people will never be attracted to vegetarianism anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Death by Veganism


New York Times; May 21 2007
By NINA PLANCK



WHEN Crown Shakur died of starvation, he was 6 weeks old and weighed 3.5 pounds. His vegan parents, who fed him mainly soy milk and apple juice, were convicted in Atlanta recently of murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty.
This particular calamity — at least the third such conviction of vegan parents in four years — may be largely due to ignorance. But it should prompt frank discussion about nutrition.

I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible. You cannot create and nourish a robust baby merely on foods from plants.

Indigenous cuisines offer clues about what humans, naturally omnivorous, need to survive, reproduce and grow: traditional vegetarian diets, as in India, invariably include dairy and eggs for complete protein, essential fats and vitamins. There are no vegan societies for a simple reason: a vegan diet is not adequate in the long run.

Protein deficiency is one danger of a vegan diet for babies. Nutritionists used to speak of proteins as “first class” (from meat, fish, eggs and milk) and “second class” (from plants), but today this is considered denigrating to vegetarians.

The fact remains, though, that humans prefer animal proteins and fats to cereals and tubers, because they contain all the essential amino acids needed for life in the right ratio. This is not true of plant proteins, which are inferior in quantity and quality — even soy.

A vegan diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve damage.

Responsible vegan parents know that breast milk is ideal. It contains many necessary components, including cholesterol (which babies use to make nerve cells) and countless immune and growth factors. When breastfeeding isn’t possible, soy milk and fruit juice, even in seemingly sufficient quantities, are not safe substitutes for a quality infant formula.

Yet even a breast-fed baby is at risk. Studies show that vegan breast milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found in fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA, vital as it is for eye and brain development.

A vegan diet is equally dangerous for weaned babies and toddlers, who need plenty of protein and calcium. Too often, vegans turn to soy, which actually inhibits growth and reduces absorption of protein and minerals. That’s why health officials in Britain, Canada and other countries express caution about soy for babies. (Not here, though — perhaps because our farm policy is so soy-friendly.)

Historically, diet honored tradition: we ate the foods that our mothers, and their mothers, ate. Now, your neighbor or sibling may be a meat-eater or vegetarian, may ferment his foods or eat them raw. This fragmentation of the American menu reflects admirable diversity and tolerance, but food is more important than fashion. Though it’s not politically correct to say so, all diets are not created equal.

An adult who was well-nourished in utero and in infancy may choose to get by on a vegan diet, but babies are built from protein, calcium, cholesterol and fish oil. Children fed only plants will not get the precious things they need to live and grow.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange then that I've personally known several people raised vegan whose parents were vegan during pregnancy who seem, if anything, sickeningly healthy. On the other hand a colleague of mine recently suffered weeks of distress as her baby rapidly deteriorated in health through constant vomiting, until the doctors finally got their head round his severe intolerance to bottled milk. He is now thriving on a vegan substitute.
I agree with the author though that not all diets are created equal. though. Some diets entail collusion with enormous cruelty and suffering.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:
Strange then that I've personally known several people raised vegan whose parents were vegan during pregnancy who seem, if anything, sickeningly healthy. On the other hand a colleague of mine recently suffered weeks of distress as her baby rapidly deteriorated in health through constant vomiting, until the doctors finally got their head round his severe intolerance to bottled milk. He is now thriving on a vegan substitute.
I agree with the author though that not all diets are created equal. though. Some diets entail collusion with enormous cruelty and suffering.


I completely agree Dogsmilk. my few friends who are long time vegan's basically converted me not by lecturing or debate but just by being so consistently healthy happy and mentally sharp.the issue of animal rights was also a major deciding factor for me personally at the beginning of my journey down the veggie path,once I had accepted that most of what I had been told about diet and nutrition could be disinfo I set out to treat myself(my girlfriend did the same) as a guinea pig to try to sort out my truth.
so after a lot of reading 3 years and many people assuring us that we were defiantly going to become sick and weak due to our diet I can honestly say I feel great! I am into fitness(my girl is a personal trainer so no choice there Wink ) and meditation and feel that the change in diet and outlook has helped with both practices and many more things besides.
In terms of the articles and news reports like the one posted by stelios about the sadly misguided parents who killed their baby with a diet of apple juice and soy(maybe an adaption of the gerson therapy?) an this looks on the surface to be a knee jerk reaction to the realisation that most of what we are told and sold about nutrition and illness is a pack of half truths and lies,sadly some people on seeing through the nonsense react in an overly zealous manner due to having no point of reference as their conditioned knowledge is destroyed by the truth.A lot of well meaning people go "veggie" with out realising that most of what we are told and sold about vegetarianism is nonsense! all those quorn and soy "replacements" sold in the super markets are at best seriously lacking in nutritional value and at worst toxic if eaten regularly as a central part of any diet.by the same token "going veggie" by living on cheese and beans on toast is not going to cut it either i my view.
I should add before this starts to sound like a lecture my only advice is this...do some reading see what you feel is disinfo and look at who benefits from some of the established myths about what we eat and more importantly give to our children.

here are some links see what you think(wow that rhymed)
[/url]http://www.vegan-info.com/[url]
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
http://www.gerson.org/
http://www.rawfoods.com/
http://www.doctorsaredangerous.com/index.htm
peace[/url]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:
Strange then that I've personally known several people raised vegan whose parents were vegan during pregnancy who seem, if anything, sickeningly healthy. On the other hand a colleague of mine recently suffered weeks of distress as her baby rapidly deteriorated in health through constant vomiting, until the doctors finally got their head round his severe intolerance to bottled milk. He is now thriving on a vegan substitute.
I agree with the author though that not all diets are created equal. though. Some diets entail collusion with enormous cruelty and suffering.


I completely agree Dogsmilk. my few friends who are long time vegan's basically converted me not by lecturing or debate but just by being so consistently healthy happy and mentally sharp.the issue of animal rights was also a major deciding factor for me personally at the beginning of my journey down the veggie path,once I had accepted that most of what I had been told about diet and nutrition could be disinfo I set out to treat myself(my girlfriend did the same) as a guinea pig to try to sort out my truth.
so after a lot of reading 3 years and many people assuring us that we were defiantly going to become sick and weak due to our diet I can honestly say I feel great! I am into fitness(my girl is a personal trainer so no choice there Wink ) and meditation and feel that the change in diet and outlook has helped with both practices and many more things besides.
In terms of the articles and news reports like the one posted by stelios about the sadly misguided parents who killed their baby with a diet of apple juice and soy(maybe an adaption of the gerson therapy?) this looks on the surface to be a knee jerk reaction to the realisation that most of what we are told and sold about nutrition and illness is a pack of half truths and lies,sadly some people on seeing through the nonsense react in an overly zealous manner due to having no point of reference as their conditioned knowledge is destroyed by the truth.A lot of well meaning people go "veggie" with out realising that most of what we are told and sold about vegetarianism is nonsense! all those quorn and soy "replacements" sold in the super markets are at best seriously lacking in nutritional value and at worst toxic if eaten regularly as a central part of any diet.by the same token "going veggie" by living on cheese and beans on toast is not going to cut it either in my view.
I should add before this starts to sound like a lecture my only advice is this...do some reading see what you feel is disinfo and look at who benefits from some of the established myths about what we eat and more importantly give to our children.

here are some links see what you think(wow that rhymed)
[/url]http://www.vegan-info.com/[url]
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
http://www.gerson.org/
http://www.rawfoods.com/
http://www.doctorsaredangerous.com/index.htm
peace

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:
Strange then that I've personally known several people raised vegan whose parents were vegan during pregnancy who seem, if anything, sickeningly healthy. On the other hand a colleague of mine recently suffered weeks of distress as her baby rapidly deteriorated in health through constant vomiting, until the doctors finally got their head round his severe intolerance to bottled milk. He is now thriving on a vegan substitute.
I agree with the author though that not all diets are created equal. though. Some diets entail collusion with enormous cruelty and suffering.

I wont take your word for it.
Human beings were meant to comsume milk and meat. It is part of our DNA it is art of our genetic make up.
I know alot of veggies either vegan or not i cant tell the difference.
I am not aware of any health benefits this brings because all the ones i know are generally unhealthy.
I have previously provided stats that show that countries in the world which are vegan (mainly) have about the lowest life expectancy and countries that are not occupy all the highest positions.

If you say that you dont eat meat because it is cruel then fair enough. But if you say you are veggie because it is healthy then i am afraid you are deluding yourselves.

Please do not confuse todays COW's milk with REAL milk. I agree milk is no longer good for you. Since 1997 when the Labour government banned milk it has become hard to get hold of, only a few health food shops and one or two farms supply it and they risk being prosecuted.
it now costs £1.48 a pint to buy real milk. The reason so many people are allergic to 'milk' is because it has been adulterated before it goes into the shops. What was interesting about the article is the fact that even if the parents gave breast milk but were themselves vegan damage occured.

By real milk i am ofcourse refering to unpasterised and unhomogenised whole milk. It is a rip off, they take the goodness out of milk then sell it to us seperately as supplements or yakult or whey protein etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You needn't take my word for it but I assure you it's true.

I see you are invoking more mystery stats. Without even needing to see them, it would seem clear to me that only studying the life expectancy specifically of vegans would yield any meaningful data.

Anyway, I feel another retread of previous terrain brewing - going into stuff about why your if God intended us not to consume a predominently plant based diet, He clearly got sent the wrong blueprint from the design department when He created Adam. So instead of going into that I'll simply suggest if you believe vegans are an unhealthy bunch you go and tell these people how they're going wrong.

It's a moral affair for me and I acknowledge your appreciation of that.

Anyway, regarding milk, I assume you approve of your darling Mrs Thatcher taking it from the little kiddies then? Anyway, I personally can't imagine wanting to clamp my laughing gear round one of these -



So irrespective of the mechanical extraction I reckon I'll give it a miss!

Mr Nice - your post was...nice!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogsmilk wrote:

I see you are invoking more mystery stats. Without even needing to see them, it would seem clear to me that only studying the life expectancy specifically of vegans would yield any meaningful data.

Without wanting to retrace our past battles the places in the world where life expentancy is highest are Okinawa in Japan, Hunsa in Pakistan, Abkhazia former soviet union among others which i listed before. Avergae life expectancy is over 100
All of these people are meat eaters.
The areas in the world which have lowest life expectancy include Zimbabwe and other parts of sub saharan africa. Where average lifespan is below 40. Now i know you are going to talk about poverty and disease etc. But my view is that the Hunza area in Pakistan is also very poor and the diffeence in lifespan occurs as a result of the vegetarian diet. In subsahran africa meat is scarce and expensive as a result people only eat meat VERY rarely. Maize porridge and rice are staples.

Quote:
Anyway, regarding milk, I assume you approve of your darling Mrs Thatcher taking it from the little kiddies then?

Thatcher took a third of a pint away from infant school children.
They could ofcourse drink it at home, but yes it was a bad move. Nothing as bad as Blair who banned ALL fresh milk anywhere in the UK.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm

Why Soy Can Damage Your Health.

Short video and lots of links.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drinking soya milk will give you man boobs
hand on heart 100% fact

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally avoid soy and soy derived food for the very reason given by stelios! the question I feel is how can any food that is known to alter the body's amazingly subtle hormonal balance be so thoroughly and universally pushed as a "health food" by doctors and most health professionals? some(most?) GP's tell menopausal woman to use soy products as a natural way of bolstering oestrogen levels,then if the next patient is an expectant or new mother eager to give her offspring the best nutrition possible the GP will go ahead and offer up daily soy intake as a good idea! the internet is awash with info of boys having hormonal problems and girls of 9 starting puberty...hmm does this add up? or are we to continue thinking 2+2 =5 and not asking questions of the qualified GP's because we as unqualified people are allegedly unable to figure this out for ourselves?

also stelios I see you using various examples from around the world of people who eat no meat having low life expectancy and then extrapolating from that the theory that veggie = inadequate nutrition.
The main flaw is see with this approach is that the in areas where Maize porridge and rice are staples they are over consumed due to abundance as these are easily produced foods.while at the same time there is a severe lack of seeds,root veg and various other vital aspects of a BALANCED diet.
Our society for all its many faults can due to technological advancement at least provide us with an amazing variety of plants and vegetables to eat from,and believe it or not stelios my friend with some reading on the subject and an intelligent approach being vegi can in my humble experience at least be rewarding and healthy,but as I stated in my last post it requires some sifting through disinfo and lies(ie soy = good).

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the difference between these two ways of gathering food for human consumption?
I would be interested to know.

Link



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good post Emmanual.
This is a proper reason for not eating meat.
Although Jane Moore is a newspaper columist well known for her racist bile.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Militant veganism and the Walt Disney Nazi mindset


A small fundamentalist section of the vegan fringe believes animal lives have the same intrinsic value as human lives.
Their 'logic' runs like this: If we stop killing animals the resulting lift in 'spiritual consciousness' will also stop present and future wars. But this is
the opposite of the truth.
This ignores the fact that human beings are of another order of responsibility and conciousness to animals.
Firstly this is an abrogation of human responsibility to care for the planet and, perhaps more importantly, it is the same philosophy promoted by Hitler and his spiritual mentor Heinrich Himmler who believed principles of Neo-Pagan 'nature worship', eugenics and 'survival of the fittest'.
The real reason for war of course has nothing to do with any 'lack of caring for animals' but is based around converging private greed interests of:
1. The modern military industrial complex, including new Private Military
Companies (PMCs) such as Blackwater, MPRI etc. who are regularly changing their company names to avoid scrutiny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company
2. Massive war machinery investors such as the Carlyle Group (with former UK PM John Major) and
3. The co-option of the mass media, news wire services by the military and their friends in te City of London to peddle lies about the Taliban not being 'freedom fighters', lies about CIA agent Osama Bin Laden carrying out the 9/11 attacks.
4. General profits to be had from violation of sovreignty and theft of
resources.
5. An infiltrated and weakened United Nations.

Whilst all unnecessary animal cruelty is to be avoided this is a Walt Disney
style anthropomorphisic argument that if we stop eating meat war will cease is simply deluded. Let's not forget either Disney's association with the Nazis.
Maybe if we rein back the free market and enforce and regulate the livestock industry as people like the Marshioness of Worcester (Tracy Worcester) are calling for and stop crowing about if you kill a rabbit you kill a human. We can really make a difference to animal welfare.
http://www.pigbusiness.co.uk/

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Location: Westminster, LONDON, SW1A 2HB.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't humans meant to be vegetarians?
Doesn't seem to do the Seventh Day Adventists any harm Smile

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'Suppression of truth, human spirit and the holy chord of justice never works long-term. Something the suppressors never get.' David Southwell
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com
http://aanirfan.blogspot.com
Martin Van Creveld: Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."
Martin Van Creveld: I'll quote Henry Kissinger: "In campaigns like this the antiterror forces lose, because they don't win, and the rebels win by not losing."
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