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A diesel car is better than petrol - find out why

 
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:04 pm    Post subject: A diesel car is better than petrol - find out why Reply with quote

A lucky escape for the first guy admiring his mate's new motorcycle - but the truly insane speeding driver of the four-by-four is not so lucky - do share around but not to youngsters please.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXuU_IzA-o0

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fish5133
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks fake
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apparently it was on the Spanish TV news in August as genune
don't you mean 'looks unlikely'
excatly where is it faked?
fish5133 wrote:
looks fake

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Disco_Destroyer
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 cars in collision are sped up imo
Video also cuts when camera person changes position but conversation stays fluid.
Why does camera person move position and focus on traffic?

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Potter Stewart
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I favour the no 4x4 theory.

The Motorbike is completely intact, it was apparently hit in the rear, and the tail lights are still there, as you can see as he runs away from the apparent burning vehicle.

The windows are blacked out completely (not tinted)on the two cars that crash, as it would be a much more complex job to animate the drivers/passengers/interior.

The car that is impacted goes off screen when the 4x4 comes down the road then enters the screen a different colour before being hit. This is the point of animation insert.

The lamp post/ telegraph pole that the 4x4 hits is completely undamaged. this I would say is impossible considering the inertia of the vehicle.

there are no visible skid marks on, or damage to, the road. No glass or parts came off the 4x4 all visible windows intact after a high speed roll. No parts came off the motorbike

There was no concern for the occupants of the other car involved in the RTA which was nearer to the star and camera man. They also never return to have that vehicle in the video. These would be the victims more deserving of help if real.

Flames and smoke appear animated but difficult to rule out digital compression.

I can't download the video for closer analysis

It looked fake from the start but has had me doubting my own instincts.

I think it is only because of the video compression quality/ digitization that it has any credence as this blurs the lines between animation and digitally recorded reality.

It may just be a very well choreographed illusion.

Can't find anymore info about it on the net. I would have thought it would make more of a buzz if real.

Digital animation technology and mediated reality are pretty advanced and accessible now.

I have heard it said that we are in the age of manipulation.

Then again if it was on the news then it must be true?!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

think its the speed and direction of the vehicle that burst into flames and the fact they 'capture' it. The acting looks a little staged managed. But could be wrong
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potter Stewart wrote:
I favour the no 4x4 theory.

The Motorbike is completely intact, it was apparently hit in the rear, and the tail lights are still there, as you can see as he runs away from the apparent burning vehicle.

The windows are blacked out completely (not tinted)on the two cars that crash, as it would be a much more complex job to animate the drivers/passengers/interior.

The car that is impacted goes off screen when the 4x4 comes down the road then enters the screen a different colour before being hit. This is the point of animation insert.

The lamp post/ telegraph pole that the 4x4 hits is completely undamaged. this I would say is impossible considering the inertia of the vehicle.

there are no visible skid marks on, or damage to, the road. No glass or parts came off the 4x4 all visible windows intact after a high speed roll. No parts came off the motorbike

There was no concern for the occupants of the other car involved in the RTA which was nearer to the star and camera man. They also never return to have that vehicle in the video. These would be the victims more deserving of help if real.

Flames and smoke appear animated but difficult to rule out digital compression.

I can't download the video for closer analysis

It looked fake from the start but has had me doubting my own instincts.

I think it is only because of the video compression quality/ digitization that it has any credence as this blurs the lines between animation and digitally recorded reality.

It may just be a very well choreographed illusion.

Can't find anymore info about it on the net. I would have thought it would make more of a buzz if real.

Digital animation technology and mediated reality are pretty advanced and accessible now.

I have heard it said that we are in the age of manipulation.

Then again if it was on the news then it must be true?!


This and other videos (like UFOs flying overhead) are getting to be pretty common. There was another video of some Public News Stream being hacked. All of these videos show how relatively easily it is to insert computer models into a real life situation.

The next question: when did this technology become available?

The third question: are you still confident of that "first plane crash" video - that "just happened" to be filmed from the perfect spot? Along with other artistically arranged views of the second crash? Call me an "anti-coincidence theorist" if you like but if the Dancing Israelis were sent to "record" the event then I'm sure other people were too! And if they missed it then there's the technology to insert the image... (fyi: I'm not a no planer)
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TonyGosling
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly is an interesting one eh??
Possibly a deliberate time waster?

Lots of spurious stuff in comments here though

1. the edit doesn't mean a thing
2. windscreen doesn't get direct hit & may be smashed by the end as we can't see it.
3. other car was nowhere nearly so badly affected by impact.
etc. etc.

no, the question is where and when is it suposed to have happened?

If I had to decide I still come down on the side of real but remain open minded

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Potter Stewart
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, as I said in my previous post that my instincts tell me it is a fake. Unfortunately that is not proof that you could use to communicate the point to someone else, or use in a court of law.

Also the video quality digitization/compression makes it difficult to see the CGI as that line is blurred by pixilation, a key part of the illusion, as to do this in high definition would be phenomenally more complex and time consuming.

We need to understand how the illusion was created in order to find the flaws/evidence of fakery.

The edit referred to by Disco is the key to this illusion.

Before the cut the star in the white t-shirt has hands on the bike so both he and the bike are real, an important shot to create the illusion of him really being there.

After the cut the bike has moved position. If you look at the pavement there is a line breaking the slabs where it goes from light to dark. The bike is closer to the dark bit of pavement post edit.

After the cut the star in the white t-shirt has been blue screened into the shot (A blue room with no angular edges is used to shoot footage of the actor to be inserted into any scene e.g. Superman). The bike is still real at this point. You can tell when you know, as he is not touching the bike but is gesturing as if he is about to. He also doesn’t know where to look exactly.

The cameraman pans to where the 4x4 comes from. The bike goes out of shot. The victim car (real) goes off screen momentarily (another edit point where the real bike is removed, you can see a slight jump) and comes on screen a different colour (a CGI car which actually looks different).
There is no need to create the cars as you can buy or download for free CGI models of cars but there will be a limit to the choice available hence why the original (real) victim car looks older and a different colour. There is also a slight glitch of continuity as the (real) car goes off screen and comes back on (CGI).

The crash takes place and the bike is CGI at this point. Keep watching the bike and it lands and comes to a halt too quickly, also it lands with the rear wheel towards the camera and in a split second changes position to the front wheel towards the camera, as the real bike is inserted back in for the moving to the wrecked 4x4 bike bypass shot.
At this point the star in the white t-shirt is still blue screened, and his over animated wobbly movement and movement of the camera help to disguise the fact that he has been super imposed on the film, but although it is quite well done it is again only disguised by the poor quality of the video but is still obvious when you know.

The star in the white t-shirt runs past the camera man away from the burning 4x4, the camera man runs away then turns around and the star in the white t-shirt as several meters behind him. This point is the most obvious blue screening. (watch the feet)

I worked it out when I realised that the star in the white t-shirt never passes behind anything in the scene. As if you know a bit about how these things are produced you know the process of layers used. First layer is of the actual filmed scene. The second layer has been mapped with an augmented reality tool for the perspective and plane of the surface. The CGI vehicles and physics involved would be done on a 3D modelling program. The fire, explosion and smoke could have been added at this point. The star after being blue screened is added as the third layer and the lighting effects are added on a after effects video mastering program.

The effects that make it more believable are the shaky movement of the camera and the tremor through the camera during the explosion as the belief is that it would be difficult to map the CGI on top of it. There are two ways that this can be done. One is to create the effect with a relatively static camera and make it seem as if it is waving about, or to map the camera movement and aqpply the mapping to the CGI accordingly.

These were quite high end digital effects tools up until a couple of years ago but are now found on many digital video effects programmes.
For the actor to move behind something would have meant creating another layer mask of an object in the scene and inserting another layer in the mix.

The 4x4 hitting the lamp post is a clever touch as the CGI interacts with an object in the scene not just the road.
I personally consider this one put to bed now.

It was interesting but more because of its anonymity, the fact that there was absolutely no information available on the net, other than the video itself. It may have been done as a student project to demonstrate the artist’s ability using multiple visual effects. There is something uncomfortably cynical about the way it is portrayed as a real event. Fatal car accident that wasn’t is a pseudo snuff film.

It certainly was an effective time waster.


Link

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanks Potter. I see the bit about the way the bike stops so soon after being hit
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, the bike stopping quickly, the zero damage to bike and light pole AND the vehicle flipping 180 degrees - it was pointing straight at camera when the van hit the bike and away from the camera when it finally comes to rest (improbably, coming to stand upright again).
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Potter Stewart
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the still frame of the you tube screen before you press play you can detect a difference in the contrast of the person in the frame to the surrounding scene.

Although it was a bit of a time waster, it is also an interesting exercise in observation and detective work.

Quote:
This and other videos (like UFOs flying overhead) are getting to be pretty common. There was another video of some Public News Stream being hacked. All of these videos show how relatively easily it is to insert computer models into a real life situation.


I would say that it is a good idea to treat anything you view on video with great skepticism as the ease that video manipulation can be achieved is becoming increasingly simpler with technological development.

Quote:
The next question: when did this technology become available?


Technology like computers etc. are not necessary to create visual illusions.

It is interesting to speculate on the development of technology as I believe that the public domain lags behind developments for say security services or high end science labs.

I have read that they had computers running at 700 mhz in the late 60's although they wouldn't be very compact and voice/trigger word recognition software running in telephone exchanges in the late 70's.
The power of modern computers has allowed the speeding up of a lot of processes that could have been possible years ago. The Independence day film is a good example of state of the art effects in 1996.

Quote:
The third question: are you still confident of that "first plane crash" video - that "just happened" to be filmed from the perfect spot? Along with other artistically arranged views of the second crash? Call me an "anti-coincidence theorist" if you like but if the Dancing Israelis were sent to "record" the event then I'm sure other people were too! And if they missed it then there's the technology to insert the image... (fyi: I'm not a no planer)


The september clues website covers this topic quite extensively with there own theories about what they consider could have happened. They suggest that there was a electronic jamming occurring in the area, which is how they could control the footage that was taken by issuing there own guys with shielded cameras (as would be done in a war zone to control the media coverage of any events) . There were reports of mobile phones being inoperative on during the event. But I would have thought this would have also affected the emergency services radios and vehicles which seemed to work ok. Mobile phone outages could have been related to power failures in the twin towers and didn't necessarily render the phones inoperative. I think that september clues go too far, but it is interesting to speculate on the extent of the illusion and manipulation. Perhaps there is some truth in there somewhere.

[url] http://www.septemberclues.info/ [/url]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


The september clues website covers this topic quite extensively with there own theories about what they consider could have happened. They suggest that there was a electronic jamming occurring in the area, which is how they could control the footage that was taken by issuing there own guys with shielded cameras (as would be done in a war zone to control the media coverage of any events) . There were reports of mobile phones being inoperative on during the event. But I would have thought this would have also affected the emergency services radios and vehicles which seemed to work ok. Mobile phone outages could have been related to power failures in the twin towers and didn't necessarily render the phones inoperative. I think that september clues go too far, but it is interesting to speculate on the extent of the illusion and manipulation. Perhaps there is some truth in there somewhere.

[url] http://www.septemberclues.info/ [/url]


I don't like September Clues for a variety of reasons...

Cell phones just stopped because of call volumes... The only type that worked well were Blackberrys...

Quote:
BlackBerry & 9/11

During and after the September 11 terrorist attacks, many cell phone networks could not handle the high volume of callers, particularly in the New York City area. At the time, all BlackBerry handhelds used a proprietary network. The BlackBerry network continued to work normally, leading to increased BlackBerry use among police, fire fighters and other emergency workers. Now, most BlackBerry handhelds and phones use the same networks as other cell phones. Using one requires a cell phone service plan with data capabilities.


The point I was making was about having photographers pre-planted - possibly that first aircraft footage could have been faked since it seemed so "coincidental" - I have been trying to find out more about the Naudet Brothers but have come up with very little...
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Disco_Destroyer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha and not even next gen gameplay footage Surprised


Link


Epic Games' Next Generation GDC 2011 Tech Demo

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/33064


Link



Link



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More to the point:
The calorific value of diesel fuel is roughly 45.5 MJ/kg (megajoules per kilogram), slightly lower than petrol which is 45.8 MJ/kg. However, diesel fuel is denser than petrol and contains about 15% more energy by volume (roughly 36.9 MJ/litre compared to 33.7 MJ/litre).
http://www.acea.be/news/article/differences-between-diesel-and-petrol

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