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Mick Meaney
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anti-semitism is racism. Rolling Eyes

I think you need to start reading what I'm posting.

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Justin
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your use of the word 'racism' suggests that we are not just 'anti-semitic', but that we like to pick on other races as well.

Now, where are these minutes? Please produce the evidence.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:
Anti-semitism is racism. Rolling Eyes

I think you need to start reading what I'm posting.


So if anyone comments on the way 'The holocaust' has been used to implant us all with a guilt complex that enables the media liars to keep lying because most people are afraid to talk about it ....that is racism rather than truth-telling, is it?

Because if one has an issue with the media it is impossible not to immediately notice that it is almost entirely Jewish-owned....

.....people are afraid to mention this, aren't they?

.....does this reality massively empower the liars and their criminal partners.

.....and this is not a 'Jewish' issue as such but the Jewish element of the problem is a major hurdle for any decent person to overcome before they get to the real issues...

....and this has not come about by accident....

....have you got a brain, Meaney? I expect to be called an 'anti-semite' by establishment lackeys for merely raising the issue.

....but by a 9/11 truther who knows (supposedly) what is going on?

It might be fair comment to say "stay away from the issue because it can be used to smear us"...... but calling people racists on the basis of their raising issues of what appear to be facts......

.....that's pretty despicable in my view.......even if it is a small step for the highly-conditioned mind.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Meaney,

Does posting this make me a racist?

June 7, 2008

Middle East Pop Quiz

by Charley Reese


It's time for another pop quiz on America's favorite region of the world – the Middle East. Let's get started with the subject of nuclear weapons.

Which country in the Middle East actually possesses nuclear weapons?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East refuses to allow international inspections of its nuclear facilities?

Israel.

Which countries in the Middle East have called for the region to be a nuclear-free zone?

The Arab countries and Iran.

Which country in the Middle East occupies land belonging to other people?

Israel, which occupies a piece of Lebanon, a larger piece of Syria, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

Which country in the Middle East has for 60 years refused to allow refugees to return to their homes and refused to consider compensation to them for their lost property?

Israel.

Which country has roads on which citizens who are Arab may not drive and housing developments where Arabs may not live?

Israel.

Which country in the region has violated more United Nations resolutions than any other?

Israel. The United States has on more than one occasion gone to war ostensibly to enforce U.N. Security Council resolutions, but when it comes to resolutions directed against Israel, the U.S. is like the amoral monkey that sees, hears and says nothing. That raises the question of who's the dog and who's the tail?

Which country in the region has in the past been led by men who at one time were terrorists with a price on their heads?

Israel. Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir once led the Stern Gang and ordered, among other things, the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte, a Swedish diplomat working for the United Nations. Former Prime Minister Menachem Begin led the Irgun, a terrorist gang that among other things blew up one wing of the King David Hotel, killing nearly 100 people.

Which country in the Middle East openly employs assassination against its political enemies?

Israel. There have been assassinations carried out by some of the Arab governments, but they usually don't own up to them. Israel has created a euphemism that the suck-up American press has readily adopted: "targeted killings." A British journalist told me once, "The Palestinians have a talent for picking bad leaders, and the Israelis have a talent for murdering their good ones."

What are the top five countries from which we import oil?

Here they are in order of volume: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria and Venezuela. The next time you hear some blowhard politician ranting about how the Arabs control our oil imports, remind him or her of the facts. By far, a majority of oil imports come from non-Arab countries.

Which country in the region receives an annual gift of $3 billion or more from Congress?

Israel.

Which foreign-aid recipient is the only one allowed to receive its aid in a lump sum and which routinely invests part of it in U.S. Treasuries so that taxpayers pay them interest on the taxpayers' gift?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East has the most powerful lobby in the U.S.?

Israel.

Which country in the Middle East are most American politicians, journalists and academics afraid to criticize?

Israel.

On behalf of which country has the U.S. vetoed the largest number of U.N. Security Council resolutions?

Israel.

What country do the people in the region consider the world's biggest hypocrite?

The United States.

Which countries in the Middle East have attacked U.S. ships in international waters?

Iraq and Israel. A lone Iraqi plane fired one missile at a U.S. ship by mistake. The Iraqi government quickly compensated the U.S. In 1967, Israeli airplanes and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty, killing 34 Americans. The U.S. government declared it an accident even before the ship limped into port, and to this day Congress has never held a public hearing and allowed the survivors to tell their story. Their story, by the way, is that the attack was deliberate. Israel compensated the families of those who were killed, but resisted for years paying compensation for the ship.

Just to remind you....the reason that some of us 'go on' about Zionism and Israel is because WE SUPPORT THESE PEOPLE.

.....and some of us don't like it.
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Mick Meaney
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:
Your use of the word 'racism' suggests that we are not just 'anti-semitic', but that we like to pick on other races as well.

Now, where are these minutes? Please produce the evidence.


For maybe the third time now I've said you have the evidence, you choose to ignore it. That's fine with me.

At least 3 people with Jewish backgrounds have publicly called this movement anti-semitic, one of them from the Cumbria group. Ignore it all you like, I haven't even begun to start sharing my experiences yet.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick Meaney wrote:

At least 3 people with Jewish backgrounds have publicly called this movement anti-semitic....


That's not at all surprising but doesn't mean it is true.

Telling or getting people to shut up (which is what the 'anti-semite' slur is all about) is, in my opinion, not a legitimate way to argue a case.

These people should challenge people they call anti-semites on their facts and arguments.

I firmly believe that most people who raise these controversial questions are making points they genuinely think are valid and important.

Israel Shamir has written that most people who are called anti-semitic today are really only trying to argue points of principle.

I agree....

.....but, of course, there are many fellow-Jews who call him anti-semitic.
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Justin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For maybe the third time now I've said you have the evidence, you choose to ignore it. That's fine with me.

At least 3 people with Jewish backgrounds have publicly called this movement anti-semitic, one of them from the Cumbria group. Ignore it all you like, I haven't even begun to start sharing my experiences yet.


Previously you wrote:

Quote:
Note to anybody who wants to deny this has happened, I saved the minutes from every meeting which clearly documents the high levels of anti semitism among other things. Anybody who wants a copy can have one


Mick, you have posted only one set of minutes which proved absolutely nothing. We are now waiting for further minutes to come from you to prove your allegations/slurs.

As I know there is nothing in the minutes to back up your ridiculous accusations, I will ask that question again - What are you REALLY trying to achieve?

Just out of interest, are you refering to your partner when you say that someone in the Cumbria group has a Jewish background.....or to myself whose brother is married into a Jewish family? Just curious.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 9/11 truth movement is most certainly not anti-semitic, in as much as to campaign for 9/11 truth is to be anti-semitic.

That is not to say that unfortunately there are not some anti-semites in our midst, in much the same way as you will find anti-semites and racists in all walks of life.

Some are easily identified, for example some users who posted anti-semitic content and links to anti-semitic sites in the holocaust thread. These posters were subsequently banned.

But let's also be clear criticism of Israel or zionism is not anti-semitic.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:

Some are easily identified, for example some users who posted anti-semitic content and links to anti-semitic sites in the holocaust thread. These posters were subsequently banned.

But let's also be clear criticism of Israel or zionism is not anti-semitic.


Let us also be clear that when the average person first comes across the influence of Zionism, Israel and Mossad on western politics, 9/11, the "War on Terror' etc, it is quite difficult for them to discern the difference between these undeniably Jewish effects and Jewish people at large.


Many of the most outspoken critics of Zionism and Israeli policies are Jews....but the average citizen is more likely to see someone like Maureen Lipman moaning (as she did) on some BBC discussion programme about the unfair treatment of "poor little Israel."

The fair-minded Jews, like ourselves, are largely denied a voice.

It takes a while to realise this.

It can be difficult to separate these issues out.....when mentioning certain other issues almost inevitably provokes furious charges of anti-semitism from some quarter or another.

For myself, I want to be as clear as possible in my own mind.......and I have sometimes used this forum to get a sense and feel for the information surrounding the 'holocaust', for instance.

I will refuse to be bullied by such a dominant taboo. I distrust the taboo itself and its effects (of prohibiting criticism of Zionism/Israel/Talmudic Judaism) to the point that I think it is reasonable (if not necessarily correct) to distrust the information or narrative that taboo is protecting.

As Henry Makow says, the massive emphasis on Jewish rather than general human suffering is, in itself, racism posing as anti-racism.

The continued brain-washing we are subject to regarding Jewish exceptionalism should be questioned at every possible opportunity.....particularly by Jews.

Like many other Christians, though we are a dwindling community (and it is right, regarding this fact too, to wonder why), I believe in a Universal God of Love........and that Christ was the messiah for and possessed by the spirit of this God.

It is clear that Jesus demanded that the Pharisees drop their self-centred theology (prototype Talmudism....God is a God of Jews alone.....not for the rest of us [goyim]) two thousand years ago.

He called them "blind guides" and a "brood of vipers". So it has proved.

No one should underestimate the consequences of Talmudic Jews adherence to this wicked faith. The most common 'goy' version of it is called Freemasonry.

So back to the point. On this site we surely all believe that there is a spirit of evil and destruction driving the parties that are delivering globalism, the big-brother state and the entire matrix of deception.

Non-Jews are as wrapped up in this evil as deeply as the Jewish oligarchy but surely the heart of the battle, spiritually speaking is exactly where it was over 200 years ago......

........(feel free to disagree) between Christ and his murderers.

This is an issue of principle not race. It is about right and wrong. Good and evil.......

.......because remember...the first Christians were Jews.

Maybe the Spirit of Universal Love, the spirit of Christ, will emerge most powerfully from out of the Jewish community again.

We need to all begin with ourselves.

'Cause it had better come from somewhere.
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Mick Meaney
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:

Mick, you have posted only one set of minutes which proved absolutely nothing. We are now waiting for further minutes to come from you to prove your allegations/slurs.

How many times do I have to say it Justin? How many people have to walk out of events? How many articles need to be written highlighting the racism in this movement? How many times has this issue been raised by newcomers at meetings? Continue your denial, continue your lies, continue your support of racists. I feel dirty just posting here.

Justin wrote:

As I know there is nothing in the minutes to back up your ridiculous accusations, I will ask that question again - What are you REALLY trying to achieve?

Indeed both myself and my partner have heard racist comments with our own ears. You will of course deny this is happening in the group, I wouldn't expect you or anyone in the group to be truthful when it comes to this.

What am I really trying to achieve? I've had enough of the bs and I'm speaking out against it, in a lot of ways I'm actually doing what you lot claim you're trying to do. For years now the truth movement has become a breeding ground for racism and you're afraid to look each other in the eye, say what needs to be said and then act upon it.

I don't expect anyone in the truth movement to agree with me, although quiet a few have, the fact they don't have the balls to state where they stand publicly tells me they are not serious about confronting and dealing with the racism in the movement.

Ian, I'm not calling everyone in the movement racist, far from it. But those who are racist are tolerated and sometimes even encouraged (Justin, you know what I'm talking about).

"Criticism of zionism is not anti-semitic" that is very much up for debate, many in the Jewish community certainly view it as anti-semitic. And lets just assume for a minute that this isn't racist, the vast majority of the British public considers it to be racist, so why continue to promote something regarded as highly offensive?

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Justin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick, I asked for the other minutes you said you had, and you have refused to provide them. Your accusations are completely baseless.

Quote:
How many times do I have to say it Justin? How many people have to walk out of events? How many articles need to be written highlighting the racism in this movement? How many times has this issue been raised by newcomers at meetings? Continue your denial, continue your lies, continue your support of racists. I feel dirty just posting here.


Any one can write this sort of garbage. Why are you lying? What's happened to you? Or should I say... Why don't you want a fair and impartial examination of Prof Judy Wood's work? What are you afraid of?

One thing is for certain, your RINF has lost all credibility with real truthseekers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Edited for pointlessness]
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Mick Meaney
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:
Any one can write this sort of garbage. Why are you lying? What's happened to you? Or should I say... Why don't you want a fair and impartial examination of Prof Judy Wood's work? What are you afraid of?

There really is no point carrying this on with you Justin, that says it all. Rolling Eyes Cheers.

Stefan wrote:
As a leading activist is this movement you've had every opportuniy to influence it

Stefan, this is the first time I've said anything publicly. For three years I've spoken about my concerns, never got angry, never started threads about it, never kicked up a fuss and always remained calm. What good did it do?

Like I said earlier, if you want people to listen to you in this thing, you have to do it in a public manner. I'm sure, as this thread is showing, it will still change nothing. And to be honest with you Stefan, I'm beyond caring.

I don't mean to sound harsh with you, you're one of the people who I believe can make a positive change in the campaign.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear all,
I`m not going to inerfere in this one bit other than to say this thread is NOT suited to being in public domain.

The arguments are not involving the public and are basically a "dispute resolution" script.

There is a time and place for everything and this ISNT the place.

Calum

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough Calum, you're right. I'm going cease taking part in this thread (but if I am attacked I will defend myself).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOSH! I don’t often visit this forum these days I have to confess, for the reason I’m a) too busy (with practical matters, including campaigning!) b) don’t like all the bickering, prefer harmony

But I can’t sit by while two friends go at each other’s throats. Mick’s objections to our new WTC initiative are par for the course, although somewhat odd coming from a person who I’m told himself worked previously with David Icke and has shown definite interest in ‘wider reality’ issues as we all have. You don’t just stop at 9/11, you go right on!

But Mick you can’t seriously think that Justin or anyone else at the heart of this movement is anti-semitic/racist?? Even if the Z-word has tripped off our tongues at various junctures in the struggle to understand, we’ve all been there momentarily I’m sure.

May I gently remind you that labelling people anti-Zionist=anti-semitic is the PTB’s standard method of discrediting people like us, along with calling us Conspiracy Theorists. Being a ‘deep-agenda-ist’ I subscribe to the view that the holocaust was orchestrated for precisely that reason, to make it thereafter impossible to attack the so-called Zionist agenda (as laid out in the fictitious Protocols) which they set up to be our main bogeyman and to bolster its latter-day incarnations such as the B’nai Brith organisation, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre etc. AND make it impossible to criticise Israel, or the big bankers or the Neo-Cons, most of whom are of Jewish extraction AND to wonderfully muddy the waters of the WOT, starting with 9/11 – I’m pretty sure that the insider-trading scam, the tipping-off of the Jewish employees of WTC and the ‘5 dancing Israelis’ were all thrown into the mix deliberately so that the ‘anti-semitic’ button’ could be pressed over and over again – whenever anyone started poking their nose too closely into 9/11 they’d come up against those facts and bingo! in the bag they’d be!

Q.e.d., so why Mick are you using the other side’s standard ploy? And tarring us all with this same brush?!! Surely not naivety in such a to all-accounts clever and politically-savvy person, I can understand why Justin has got the wind up!

However as I’ve been trying to tell Justin, people do sometimes do or say strange things and they do suddenly ‘change their tune’ or get fixated on things, for reasons we can’t from the outside identify; it could be pressure in their personal lives or that they’re suffering from ill-health or any number of reasons.

But at any rate, we shouldn’t ever jump to the conclusion that anyone’s working for the other side which is very damning unless we have completely concrete EVIDENCE of that. OR, as a not-too-close second, that a number of other people of reasonably sound judgment have all come to the same conclusion, independently of each other.

At the same time, when people start behaving oddly or inconsistently with their previous behaviour, or actually lying! that should indeed be an alarm-bell. But our response in the first instance should be strictly humanitarian. As a community we do need to recognise that the strain of dealing with all this dark stuff is real (don’t I know) and we should look out for each other. If anyone is showing signs of strain someone geographically close should check the situation at first hand to see what the problem really is (at the risk of getting a dusty answer of course!)

At the end of the day there’s only one thing we can firmly say about who or what group was ultimately responsible for 9/11 and it’s this: it was ALL of them working together! the Zionists, the neo-Nazis, the Islamic fundamentalists, the Jesuits, the top Freemasons, the NWO-ists and the Satanists, the odd Alien, old Uncle Tom Cobbly and all! And there probably weren’t even that many of those in the composite ‘inner ring’ – someone’s estimated no more than 50 people planned and carried out 9/11. All the rest were patsies and bit-players and FOs (following orders) who played their part in the game but couldn’t see the whole of it.

Set against that lot are we THE PEOPLE of any nation or group, very much including Jews & the ordinary people of Israel who are not on any agenda except peace on the planet, care for the environment and respect for all other people.

It’s really that dead simple.

So DOWN WITH ALL –ISMS including Zionism and racism and let none of us resort to any of those stupid –ISM labels, certainly not used against each other. Any who do may have forgotten themselves momentarily, they may be under strain and may need our support.

Mick you’re a great campaigner for people & truth – stay with us please but drop the –isms!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough Mick, I was planning on staying out of this thread and I think I'll return to that policy now.

Again, best of luck for the future and don't be a stranger.

S

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Fair enough Calum, you're right. I'm going cease taking part in this thread (but if I am attacked I will defend myself).


Absolutely agree with you Mick, if false statements or slurs are made on a public forum by individuals or groups/coalitions and moderators take no action they should be challenged and asked to substantiate such claims by providing evidence. . Just as I have successfully defended the false allegations made by your partner Sixy concerning my involvement with the Lancaster Truth campaign (Nov 2006-Mar 2007) and my attendance of some of the 911 truth related rinf.com Lancaster truth presentations (Mar-Aug 2007).on this thread:-

“Financial support for the campaign”

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=119846#119846&sid=fc 519b8b44009d59ed9829983a215509

Belinda as usual makes an outstanding contribution here by trying to maintain unity but for me she hits the nail on the head with the statement:-

Quote:
when people start behaving oddly or inconsistently with their previous behaviour, or actually lying! that should indeed be an alarm-bell.


There is certainly a history of attacks on the Cumbria 911 truth group and its core supporters as I will show later

I also have been trying to understand Micks outburst and my sentiments echo Pennys

Quote:
I cannot for the life of me understand why he is taking this stance, when we are all trying to do the same thing and help people wake up to the truth
.
Its personally devastating when you put your trust and faith in someone and this happens.

I started this thread on 8th May which in case anyone has forgotten is about the launch of the Whole Truth Coalition. Micks outburst, almost a month later, seems to have been triggered by my announcement of the WTC website.

Thanx Mick for positively responding to my request for posting the evidence of your claims allegation/insinuations that the Cumbria 911 truth group is anti-semite and providing us with a copy of minutes from a meeting going back to March 2005.

I would confirm that those minutes are accurate and despite it being over 3 years ago I remember the meeting well. As the minutes record you came along with your colleagues/associates Alf Megson (Flamesong), and Patrick (who informed us he was a Greenpeace activist; it was the only meeting he attended).. Apart from informing us about rinf.com Mick you said nothing else .The key questions that comes to my mind here is what was the purpose of your attendance at the meeting and why did you not raise your objections at the meeting at what you heard?

The relevant part of those minutes that you refer to as evidence are presumably:-


Quote:
Paul suggested John Pilger, as he could be very helpful. He also spoke of 'Dave Starbuck' material and referred to the articles in the magazine 'Nexus' which showed, for example 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust as eing untrue figures.

Justin showed us some information re 'Zionists'. He spoke about the Illuminati aiming to reduce the population of the planet to 2 billion. O2 levels were going down and NcDonald Douglas had built a huge, secret underground cavern in the Nevada Desert!


There is no mention of the Protocols in those minutes Mick however I would be being dishonest if I denied at some time the protocols had been brought up in general discussion at a meeting but I cannot recollect if you were there. I think you only attended two Cumbria meetings at Kirby Lonsdale in March-April 2005 despite me offering you a lift and you being notified about meetings by e mail. I also recollect at a meeting Alf informing us about an organized group of activists bringing down the Indymedia site.. Alf left the group a month or so later.

The next time we met Mick was at Manchester Town Hall for the Jimmy Walters presentation in September 2005 where we also touched base again with Alf who had been commissioned as part of Jimmys sound & vision support team. I remember at the end of William Rodriguezs speech you stood up and started a well deserved standing ovation.

I have seen much of this information published on your website rinf.com which I see has recently undergone a major change of image and indexing/content (re: white background replacing former black background with white and red lettering). Yes you’ve certainly been busy Mick.

For those who wish to know what Micks rinf.com site used to look like check out his work on our official site www.911truthcampaign.net. A complete alteration of mark I (Adrians work) if anyone can remember how it used to look. (blue background quite similar to this sites design which btw I think is fab and very user friendly on the whole)

Mick says that this proves his claims of anti-semitism:-


Quote:
Holocaust denial sounds pretty anti-semitic to me.
A Jewish conspiracy to rule the world sounds pretty anti-semitic to me.


Its ridiculous, all that is happening here is the passing on of information just as occurs on rinf.com. Based on the evidence Mick has supplied to date you be the judge of his allegations which then extend to the group being tarred with being rascist and then a cult for those who dare stand up for truth.

Mick,as Belinda correctly points out is of course adopting the technique practiced so consistently by the gatekeepers and establishment of shooting the messenger and playing the man not the ball. He cannot produce any evidence as Justin quite rightly demands because the truth is, there is none!

The Cumbria 911 truth group secretary, Pennys rare post here reminds me of why I have continued to support and enjoy the company of the Cumbria 911 truth group and also the UK 911 Truth campaign since February 2005.. Her statement


Quote:
We have never been any thing else but a friendly group of kind hearted people who have really enjoyed embarking on one of the biggest learning curves of our lives and who have been more than willing to communicate that new knowledge to as many people as we could.


is imo spot on as many of the non local visitors to Cumbria meetings will be able to verify

For her contribution Mick publicly alleges that Penny is dishonest without any substantiation of his claim.. Hypocrite and pot and kettle springs to mind when he states this:-


Quote:
I believe in freedom of speech and wouldn't want to stop anybody from doing what they believe to be the right thing, as long as it doesn't hurt others


Well Mick your allegations as well as your partners, Sixy on the other thread certainly hurt me but it makes me more determined not to give up the cause.

During the time I have known you Mick you have never made it known to me how strongly you felt regarding the Cumbria group being anti semite, rascist and we did work closely together from Nov 2006 – Mar 2007. If you felt so strongly about the group why after leaving in March 2005 why indeed did you return in the early summer of 2006 and continue your association with the group until towards the end of 2007? Your statement
Quote:
I have walked out of meetings in protest, made my feelings known via email, on the phone and in person for the last 3 years. Whether or not I had been listened to is clear
is untrue and I agree with Justin,its outrageous.

Thanx to David Icke and other top quality truthseekers, researchers and those with wisdom like Justin, Paul, Laurie, together with articles pasted on websites like rinf.com, Truthseeker, etc I understand what Zionism is and that those who expose the truth of Zionism are labelled incorrectly as anti-semite. Justin and kbos concise input on Zionism on this thread I believe is the truth and Justin is imo correct to state that Mick understands Zionism.

As Ian neal correctly states
Quote:
But let's also be clear criticism of Israel or zionism is not anti-semitic


I remember towards the end of the Q&A session at the first Lancaster Truth Campaign event in December 2006 (re: David Shayler and Annie Machon) a Jewish looking gentleman stood up and made the allegation that the 911 truth exposure presentation and what David had stated was anti-semite.. Justin then explained Zionism to the audience and there was no further discussion. Joseph from the West Yorks 911 truth provided further elaboration. Both you and Sixy were there as indeed was Annie Machon who, at that time, was our Campaign Secretary.

When outbursts like this happen, people tend to show their inability to make rational judgements of information. Why?. Analysing some of Micks allegations:/statements and those who support his actions on this thread:-

Quote:
some of the comments above and the emails I'm receiving which state that I'm 'working for a dark agenda' have reinforced my opinion that conclusions are reached willy-nilly with little respect for the truth and often filled with speculation and paranoia.


It would be helpful if you could reveal who these e mails are from Mick. Regarding speculation and paranoia that reminds me of you raising your doubts with me about David Shayler, Annie Machon and Sam who supported the Lancaster Truth campaign during Dec 2006-Mar 2006.

When I attended the release of Loose Change Final Cut and the discussion afterwards by Structural Engineer Gordon Ross at the Dukes cinema in Lancaster at the beginning of March this year I expected to see you there, especially as its near your flat. You were not there but two of the rinf.com team were, Albert and John. Afterwards we had a couple of beers and I asked John why you would not give me Sams contact details after the Rodriguez event in March 2007.. John informed me that you had told him Sam was a government agent and that he had asked you if you would join up. Maybe John was just taking the p***!

I also remember during one of our 4am 911 truth activist operations you told me that your former partner thought you were a shill which probably explains why you would not allow me to drop you off at your Ryelands residence.in 2005.


Quote:
after walking out of 9/11 truth meetings because the reptilian agenda and anti semitic theories were being pushed as fact, and making my opinions known about this, litte has changed since 2005 when I first became involved.


I’ve never seen that Mick. It would have been helpful if you had given us specific cases of when this occurred.

Quote:
We've had people walking out of events because of what they call anti semitic material


I have never seen anyone stomping out. That includes Cumbria 911 Truth , Lancaster Truth Campaign and rinf.com Lancaster meetings. As regards you going out, like Penny says I always thought it was for a fag and you always returned.

Quote:
fully expect the remaining group to sit in a circle at the next
meeting, taking turns at creating a great conspiracy theory about me,
like you have with other members who left in protest


It would be helpful if you stated which members you are referring to Mick. The only member who I am aware of is Alf Megson (Flamesong) who you came along with to your first Cumbria meeting. IMO Alf has been a top flamer on this site, like yourself he has consistently monitored the movements progress and he has made false allegations about me on this site which I have successfully defended; re: this thread:-
Am I an enemy of 911 truth thread

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=30787&highlight=#307 87

There was also the Masons relevation about the Cumbria group. Remember this thread and Spun:-

Breakthrough on British TV:BBC Question time Blackpool 22/9/05
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=1388&highligh t=#1388

This pm message I sent to Spun remains unopened in my outbox:-

Quote:
Pikey
To: spun
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: who is Spun

That was pretty low of you to reveal my first name Spun on the website
and for the record I am not an associate of David Boyle nor am a
pod/missile man so please rescind from putting disinfo on the website.I
have put the Q's I would have asked if selected on the website and for
your info the Cumbria group advised David Boyle not to use the
pod/missile theory because of its controversy.

You state a third party is providing you with info about the Cumbria
group. Who would that be Spun?

Please reveal to me who you are and when we met Spun. If you are
supporting the 911 Truth campaign you will reveal who you are and do
the honourable thing and apologise, to David Boyle, me and others you
have insulted as well as the Cumbria group for inferring it has a
hidden agenda because two of its members are masons.


Quote:
This was an early meeting and the first one I attended. I didn't return to the group for some time after that meeting but it is interesting to note the amount of members fell dramatically to around 4.


That’s untrue the core membership of the Cumbria 911 truth group remained at around six until .the end of 2007 when meetings ceased The group had many visitors both locally and from other areas groups. It would be interesting to know if those visitors like Noel, Catfish, Sinclair, Mooter, etc thought the group was anti semite, cultist or rascist..

When you returned to the Cumbria 911 truth group as a visitor in the summer of 2006 as the campaign was stepping up a gear with the 5th anniversary gathering in London in September and David Ray Griffin at Conwy Hall you became a member and attended meetings with me driving. You made a great contribution with the launch of the group website www.911truthcumbria.rinf.com. You attended the 5th anniversary events on your own steam making your arrangements as opposed to travelling by car with us and staying at Belindas. After the 5th anniversary events your mission appeared to be to meet up with as many of the 911 groups and activists as possible.

I also recollect discussing with you about Flamesongs personal attack on me and informing you that I judge people by their action not words., which I noticed you adopted as your signature message on your posts here.


The reason the Cumbria 911 truth group did not grow imo is because it did not do any local 911 truth activism. This changed after the Lancaster truth campaign when Penny and Maureen organised the Rodriguez event at Grange and launched the NW Truthseekers. Group..

Quote:
when I split away from the Cumbria group and formed the Lancaster group we had the involvement / support of pro active groups such as NO2ID and the Stop the War Coalition, we had journalists regularly attending and reporting positively on events, we had the support of teachers, lawers, health care professionals, students and people from all walks of life who had never encountered the information we were presenting but returned on a regular basis bringing their friends and family along


Mick that’s total exaggeration and very misleading. The Lancaster Truth Campaign events were well attended and especially the last one the Rodriguez event at St Martins. The only journalist who gave us support was Satori (website; Virtual Lancaster) and maybe Sams friends partner Ingrid Kent Chief Reporter of the Morecambe Visitor who put in the full page spread Rodriguez interview in The Visitor

I did not see any significant support from the STWC other than curiosity from a few. As regards the NO2ID group we met them once at The Waterwitch pub for a drink, 2 female students and a guy who thought we were conspiracy theorists! The rinf.com events after that were badly supported (re: Cancer, Sweet Misery etc) and it became financially unviable to continue. Your mention of the Lancaster STWC group reminds me of Alf Megsons request to me not to mention his name to one of the leaders Matt who was also an organizer of the G8 protest in Edinburgh when I tried to get them to support the 911 truth campaign by forming a Cumbria/North Lancashire coalition.

In 2007 you began to become more involved at a central organization level with the campaign and attended the AGM. You took on the responsibility of admin on the site and also produced a new official site and the Truth action website. There are now that many websites its confusing for those just embarking on their 911 truth journey who wish to campaign.
Why would someone spends his life running a fab website like rinf.com want to get involved in being an admin here and also taking control of the official website www.911truthcampaign.net?

In July 2007 Alf Megson became a moderator on the Private forum Action thread on www.nineeleven.co.uk

In October 2007 I noticed Mick with his new camcorder recording the Martin Bell event at Lancaster University which he put a link on here. However Mick never recorded the Q&A at the end when three were 911 truth related raised were raised (two by John Blacker and one by myself). Also I noticed Sixy was there but I never heard her raise any 911 truth questions.

Inconsistent moderator, Tony Goslings action in giving Justin the yellow card but not Mick and his media savvy clever dualistic announcement

Quote:
Don't worry Mick, You're not alone m8

and
Quote:
It does frustrate me when people set themselves up to be torn down, David Shayler style
However misguided we might feel some of this initiative to be we must back them though


Stefan, 2007-08 Secretary of the UK 911 Truth Campaign
Quote:
I'm sorry to hear your local group has been taken over by anti-Semites

Not much peace & truth in that statement Stefan

clearly are tolerant of an abusive and disrespectful culture of slurring 911 truth groups and individuals without evidence. . Stefan however backtracks concedes there is no evidence, then removes his post
Quote:
Edited for pointlessness]
and reposts announcing
Quote:
Fair enough Mick, I was planning on staying out of this thread and I think I'll return to that policy now


Of course the key question here is raised by a wise owl ,Justin who asks Mick
Quote:
So what are you trying to achieve?

Micks response: to the question: to date one of silence however he does state
Quote:
this truth movement is *
. Maybe that’s what Mick and his associates are aiming to achieve?

I believe that the only chance the UK 911 truth campaign has of succeeding in its objective to have a full professional and independent investigation into revealing the truh of what really happened is from the bottom of the pyramid up. By the establishment and growth of 911 truth groups throughout the UK and the creation of a united front.

I have no evidence to show that Mick or Alf Megson are shills, nor like the authorities do I have the resources to prove that they are. I would however state this that I cannot trust individuals or groups who carry out this practice nor do I wish to work with them again. I have no doubt that the powers that be will be delighted with any action that results in dividing such movements as the UK 911 truth campaign. They will be delighted to read Micks ststement the truth movement is fcuked

I’ll leave your thoughts with these excellent little chestnuts from Andrew Johnson,Penny Paul Wright, the Mysterious Mick and finally Justin extracted from this thread:-


Quote:
If you ignore evidence, you will fail to find the truth. Deliberate
and wilful ignorance of evidence is an action which is common both
inside and outside the 9/11 “truth” movement


Quote:
Those who wish to ignore evidence are, of course, free to do so. But please bear in mind that this is exactly what the 9/11 commission did - and this is the main reason why they are now held in such low regard by
more and more people


Quote:
The last thing we want to do is to disempower ourselves and give all that lovely energy away to the 'Powers that Were


Quote:
We need to be very united at this time


Quote:
Here Steve, you asked me to make it public here so let it be on your head when the Watch sites repost it and discredit your cause further


Quote:
Are you accusing me of working for the 'dark agendas' - because my friend that is precisely what you have done.


Quote:
TRUTH WITHOUT FEAR


Peace & truth

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pikey wrote:

For her contribution Mick publicly alleges that Penny is dishonest without any substantiation of his claim..


I've addressed this to you in pm as you also mentioned this to me.

Quote:
Also I noticed Sixy was there but I never heard her raise any 911 truth questions.


I wasn't there.

And again, as far as anti-semitic allegations are brought up by you in this recent response, I find this incredible after the first comment you made to me in pm.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a lot of waffle. I agreed to stay out of this thread and apart from this post I will keep to that but to say I'm working on a rather long article which details my experience of the movement - no holes barred, yes Steve you will be mentioned, in particular how you almost got the campaign into legal troubles through your accusations at a certain Lancaster newspaper (would have been a blessing in disguise if you ask me). There is of course 3 years of other insanity to report.

It will not be published here as I am done with this circle jerk of a movement. You'll know where to find it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sensed there was 'trouble up north' from 2004 when I began to be involved - partly because I could see Justin, much as I respect him, bringing the alien agenda and reptiles etc. in - which could be used as a stick to beat the entire movement. He shouldn't be plugging his role as 911 Truth Co-Chair at an alien meeting if that is actually what's really happened?

Much like the 'No Planes at the WTC' people, calling in attacks on the entire movement with unproven conjecture.... This alien agenda was always going to be irreconcilable with the wider anti-war and 911 Truth movement for the majority on this planet.

It may of course be the case that 'the world is not yet ready for this information', but that seems a case for leaving off until it is. The world is certainly ready for 9/11 Truth.

I see it all as much more mundane (sorry alien lovers) human 'reptile brain' greed driving 9/11 7/7 and the 'War Of Terror'. Until proved, without a shadow of a doubt, reptile stuff will make 9/11 truthers look like loonies in the eyes of most media and public.

Good luck though with gathering and presenting the alien evidence if you can get it. Hope I'm not out of order wading in here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pikey,
I really can't be bothered responding in detail.

Anyone who read my post knows I was posting about -

a) The fact that criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitism
b) That Mick had kept quiet for a long time about this

I deleted it for two reasons:

a) It was a rambling mess. I wrote it when I was a bit out of it and when I tried to come back to it to tidy it up I realised it wasn't really saying anything that hadn't been said by others on the thread.
b) Mick had quoted the relevant part and answered it - that he has tried to bring this up before and got nowhere and this is his final straw.

Whether I think Mick's done this in the right way or not, I can fuly understand the frustration at wanting to do something about 9/11, the war on terror, civil liberties and illegal wars, and finding yourself asociated with hoocaust denial, no planery, beam weapons and everything else under the sun.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Mick had kept quiet for a long time about this Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:
b) That Mick had kept quiet for a long time about this


I was wondering what the truth was in this so I have been reading the archives and he has spoken out about the racism before:

Quote:
I have seen people pushing this Jewish & Zionist nonsense at 9/11 meetings and have been truly disgusted. Neither race nor religion has anything to do with 9/11 truth, drives newcomers away from the movement and labels us all as racists.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=55305#55305


Quote:
With a number of years experience in this I believe by presenting evidence of a "Jewish conspiracy" is playing directly into the hands of those who want to label us as racist and I refuse to deal with this small minded mentality.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=55656#55656


I'm quite looking forwards to the article, there is a lot of nonsense that should be exposed and condemned and I also hope it doesn't shy away from embarrassing mistakes such as the RINF "Science Correspondent" who thought Judy Wood was a good source and the article about there being nuclear reactors under the WTC (we all make mistakes -- I'm not wanting to debate that article again...)...

Also I hope it doesn't fail to mention that there are 9/11 truth sites that don't tolerate the nonsense that is tolerated here, for example:

Quote:
Below is a list of associations that are damaging and marginalizing to the movement. Some are offensive and baseless, others may simply be speculative or fringe. The common thread is that all of these topics/attitudes/assertions have extremely negative connotations for the general public and they should not be paired with concrete, fact-based research. This is only a partial list:

* UFO and alien theories
* Holocaust denial/revisionism and Jewish conspiracy theories
* All forms of racism
* Moon Landing “Hoax”
* Anti-environmentalism (i.e. “global warming is a hoax” or “the environment is fine; humans aren’t causing significant damage”)

http://www.truthmove.org/content/2008-declaration/


And:

Quote:
Some associations that are damaging and marginalizing to the movement are listed below. It is a historical fact that the mere mention of these topics has been seen to cause us long term damage. Consequently it is considered by TruthAction.org that only a clear focus on 9/11 fact based evidence will achieve our goals.

1. UFO and alien theories
2. Holocaust revisionism
3. Religion based conspiracy theories
4. Moon landing hoax

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3227


At times some "activists" on this site seem to be more interested in the topics that the sane sites ban... is this a coincidence...? Rolling Eyes

Also there is the whole issue of disinformation, which can't really be properly dealt with here since so many people are into this stuff... Rolling Eyes

- http://911disinformation.com/
- http://911review.com/disinfo/
- http://www.truthmove.org/content/disinformation/
- http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/search/label/Disinformation
- http://www.oilempire.us/disinfo.html
- http://visibility911.com/reports-cointelpro01.php

*sigh*

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Mick had kept quiet for a long time about this Reply with quote

Quote:
With a number of years experience in this I believe by presenting evidence of a "Jewish conspiracy" is playing directly into the hands of those who want to label us as racist and I refuse to deal with this small minded mentality.

http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=55656#55656


Of course they'll label us racist!! We all know that.

Israel and Mossad along with other intelligence services and elements of the US military and government were up to their eyes in 9/11. Zionism is the label on the tin. You have to go through that label to get to the tin itself. What we would find if we got there, who knows, but you have to work with what you do know now.

It is impossible to sensibly discuss 9/11 without mentioning the part played by the neo-Cons and these other parties, including Jewish parties. There is at least one Jewish conspiracy...........to stigmatise anyone who suggests there is anything resembling a Jewish conspiracy.

These people are racists posing as anti-racists.

The gang these REAL racists are trying to protect are mass-murderers. Full stop.

To clear your mind on this issue, take a look at how the Jewish state behaves at home (so much in contrast to our own, dear, vigorously anti-racist culture.....do you ever wonder where that came from.....and why we were saddled with it.....not that anti-racism is bad....but if it blinds you it is certainly not all good).

Do you imagine that if 9/11 were fully exposed and we never mentioned Jewish influence once, that the people who would take control and dispense judgement and justice would not be representatives of the Jewish body politic that already direct the mass of our affairs?

I think it is both small-minded and playing into hands of those who would label us as racist (i.e. those who created the anti-semitic meme....i.e. that very same Jewish body politic) to ignore this most serious and fate-determining of issues.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I sensed there was 'trouble up north' from 2004 when I began to be involved - partly because I could see Justin Walker, much as I respect him, bringing the alien agenda and reptiles etc. in


Tony the Cumbria 911 truth group was not formed until the beginning of 2005 so if you came up North in 2004 and you sensed trouble it must have been something else.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not Jewish influence it's Zionist influence. An increasing number of Jewish people disagree with Israeli government expansionism.
We've just seen a news story today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7451691.stm
where Jewish group B'Tselem
http://www.btselem.org/English/
are campaigning against Zionist policies in the Holy land.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovely pm posted here from Mr Flamesong, Alf Megson concerning my post on this thread and my reply

Quote:
From: Pikey
To: flamesong
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: I suggest you read this, for your own good!
Alf

That wont be the first time you've put something derogatory and untruthful about me on flamesong.

I dont have any problem with you publishing information about me on your website, as long as its factual/true. If your going to deviate from that line though I suggest that you take legal advice first.

I dont put anything in the public domain unless its true so unless you can show or prove otherwise my statements stand.

Best wishes and good luck



Quote:
Quote:
From: flamesong
To: Pikey
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:59 am
Subject: I suggest you read this, for your own good!
It has been brought to my attention that you have resumed your hobby of making mendacious allegations about me.

Despite having absolutely no involvement in the 9/11 'Truth' Campaign for over a year, largely due to idiots like you who seem to have a very selective concept of what the 'truth' is, you felt the need to mention me 13 times in one rambling rant of a post which had absolutely nothing to do with me.

I give you notice that unless you delete every mention you ever made of my name on this forum within seven days I will post everything I know about you along with my opinion of you on the front page of my website.

I will not publish anything which is not freely available on the internet or easily verifiable. I will make it clear that it is my opinion that you are a moron so that I am neither breaking any data protection legislation nor will you find I am being libellous.

Do you understand? You have until 11.00 on Tuesday 22nd June 2008.

I will be preparing the front page over the next week and you can expect it to be posted at 11.01 on Tuesday 22nd June 2008.

Make good use of this forum's search facility because I will be checking.

Don't underestimate me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reference to Pikey's above post, isn't against forum rules to post pm's?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether it is Alf, Mick or Sixy, I for one am getting very sick and tired of the lies, distortions and general unpleasantness coming from yourselves. I will give you a friendly warning Mick, if I read one lie about myself in your account on RINF of the 9/11 Truth Campaign, you will find yourself in very deep legal water.
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Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 377
Location: North West UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin wrote:
Whether it is Alf, Mick or Sixy, I for one am getting very sick and tired of the lies, distortions and general unpleasantness coming from yourselves. I will give you a friendly warning Mick, if I read one lie about myself in your account on RINF of the 9/11 Truth Campaign, you will find yourself in very deep legal water.

I have never once lied Justin and you know it. In fact I can tell you right now what I've wrote about you.. how you claim you were invited to join the Illuminati, how you made a fool of yourself outside a StWC meeting by shouting "we're not crazy anymore!", how you introduced yourself as co-chair of the 9/11 truth campaign and then informed the room that the world is controlled by reptiles, I'm sure there's more - I'll have to check my notes but you get the drift.

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