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A bit of brief news about "Loose Change"
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scubadiver
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: A bit of brief news about "Loose Change" Reply with quote

I've managed to get the internet connection to listen to Webster Tarpley on www.RBNlive.com

Now that Berlusconi has left office, "Loose Change" has been shown on TV in Italy at primetime. It is also doing the rounds in Canada and Australia.

Now we need it here in this country.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screw Loose Change

Loose Change- rebuttal + Confession in phone interview

Time to bury these Zionist deniers.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't think the loose change lads are 'zionist deniers'!

yeah, loose change2 has its weak spots. and asserts itself in places where the evidence is speculative (hopefully ed3 will clear a few points up). But on the whole i think its a really good documentary. It's really accessible and a good introduction for people who haven't researched 9/11. It is really well produced (borrowing techniques used by msm networks to get us to see something in a certain way) and most importantly seems to make the average person ask questions about the official story.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because people don't mention Zionists in their research doesn't mean they Zionist deniers - they just may not have researched their involvement at 1 or more levels (and I think they are involved - this page ask some good questions, for example http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a109.htm) The impression I took from the telephone conversation between Eric Hufschmid and the LC lads was just this - they didn't rule it out. They also didn't rule out that they might have been fed information on certain topics.

It's like classing all the people who DON'T post here as being "9/11 truth Deniers". The reality is that most of them haven't studied the evidence and some of them might be "9/11 truth Deniers" even when they have studied the evidence - they would just not have accepted it as valid.

It's important to make this distinction.

To me, it is important to consider that "The dominos are topling" and people are beginning to question more. It is the questioning that is to be encouraged, as this is the fundamental fuel for Freedom of Speech and expression.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh please.. when questioned about the Zionist connection they look well rehearsed in diverting discussion like to Bohemian Grove. I've heard of a video where earlier on when they were questioned; they were shocked and scared. But really.. BOHEMIAN GROVE? Wth does that have to do with 911 and how does knowledge of it help? They say things like "we didn't have time to include everything they wanted to", so now that their film is on it's 4th revision they are still openly refusing to include any hint of a Zionist connection in it. 4 revisions! Just like Alex (Zionist) Jones bombarding us with repetition and sidestepping talk of Israel, or Zionism.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well just because someone doesn't agree with a certain theory, doesn't automatically make them the enemy


I don't know much about the zion stuff. I find it hard to focus on. It seems to me more likely that this would be about power and money rather than any kind of religious cult

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not so much that I have problem with exploring the links between Isreal to 9/11 (such as this evidence)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fAoe26MaTew
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-13/fishwrapper.html
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-20/fishwrapper.html
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-27/fishwrapper.html

nor acknowledging Isreal's crimes against the Palestinian people and the links of MOSSAD to false flag terrorism

But I do have a problem with the suggestion promoted by some that the Isreali state and MOSSAD (or in some dodgy cases, simply 'the jews') represents the pinnacle of the global crime family and that there aren't further layers to the onion.

To my mind there is a complex web of conspiratorial CABALs and Isreal and MOSSAD is a part of this web, but that's it. Just a part of a bigger picture. Anyone promoting the belief that people of one faith (jewish) or one nation (Isreal) is responsible for 9/11 and other similar false flag terrorism is failing to fully understand the full complexity of the situation and the multiple deceptions and smoke and mirrors involved IMO.

Loose Change could similarly have been criticised for failing to explore sufficiently the links between Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and 9/11. It seems to me that Eric H is plain annoyed that his film hasn't received the same recognition and support as LC2 and sees all sorts of dark forces at work as a result. When the truth could be that his film just ain't as good and as watchable as LC2 or that most people within the movement (whilst aware of the Isreali connection) just don't share his wider worldview.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its possible that the lack of the "Israel connection" in LC2 is probably because it is a lot more difficult to find evidence for or am I just plain dumb?

Can someone explain?

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is
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loose-change focuses on physical evidence. Its pretty obvious why they dont push the zionist/israeli angle
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's been shown in Italy, Australia, and Canada - anywhere else? I know the BBC as a whole have been denying any publicity to our campaign but what TV stations have been contacted with a view to broadcasting Loose Change2?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
It's not so much that I have problem with exploring the links between Isreal to 9/11 (such as this evidence)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fAoe26MaTew
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-13/fishwrapper.html
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-20/fishwrapper.html
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2002-03-27/fishwrapper.html

nor acknowledging Isreal's crimes against the Palestinian people and the links of MOSSAD to false flag terrorism

But I do have a problem with the suggestion promoted by some that the Isreali state and MOSSAD (or in some dodgy cases, simply 'the jews') represents the pinnacle of the global crime family and that there aren't further layers to the onion.

To my mind there is a complex web of conspiratorial CABALs and Isreal and MOSSAD is a part of this web, but that's it. Just a part of a bigger picture. Anyone promoting the belief that people of one faith (jewish) or one nation (Isreal) is responsible for 9/11 and other similar false flag terrorism is failing to fully understand the full complexity of the situation and the multiple deceptions and smoke and mirrors involved IMO.

Loose Change could similarly have been criticised for failing to explore sufficiently the links between Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and 9/11. It seems to me that Eric H is plain annoyed that his film hasn't received the same recognition and support as LC2 and sees all sorts of dark forces at work as a result. When the truth could be that his film just ain't as good and as watchable as LC2 or that most people within the movement (whilst aware of the Isreali connection) just don't share his wider worldview.


Very well said Ian.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madthumbs wrote:
But really.. BOHEMIAN GROVE? Wth does that have to do with 911 and how does knowledge of it help?


Because BG is their little country club, where they cook up their plans along with a few fresh innocent children. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't know much about the zion stuff. I find it hard to focus on. It seems to me more likely that this would be about power and money rather than any kind of religious cult


It's not just about religion, though it does involve Christianity and Judaism. They use false data ( David Cole at Auschwitz ) to hide behind the phraise "anti-semitism". We're taught that anti-semitism means anti-Jew and that Jews are a race when in fact Arabs are Semites and genetically identical to Jews. Being anti-Zionist is actually being pro-semite since Jews and Arabs use to live in peace in Palestine. Here's a *must see* docu: Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land

The US gives more aid to Israel than any other country. Citizens of the US are only able to donate to 1 country tax free: Israel. Despite Israel going against the UN we are over there killing their neighbours while they're land grabbing. The US economy is in peril, and they are still full bore supporting Israel with enough for every Israeli to live comfortably on.





Why do we believe the Zionists are the masterminds of 911

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ian neal wrote:
Loose Change could similarly have been criticised for failing to explore sufficiently the links between Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and 9/11.


What links?

Quote:
It seems to me that Eric H is plain annoyed that his film hasn't received the same recognition and support as LC2 and sees all sorts of dark forces at work as a result.


The reason behind that is clear. Eric is rightfully annoyed. His video is or was one of the first exposing 911, and is still today one of the best if not the best: Painful Deceptions

Quote:
When the truth could be that his film just ain't as good and as watchable as LC2 or that most people within the movement (whilst aware of the Isreali connection) just don't share his wider worldview.


If it's not as "good", then please proceed to debunk it. Afterall; Loose Change was shot so full of holes that it should be considered a joke. "Most people in the movement" are disinformation agents and most often aren't even real people.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madthumbs,

I saw it when it came out and it is very good on evidence.
However, the voiceover is really annoying, patronising and repetitive.
Everyone i showed it to hated that side of it. It put them off in some cases.
Whereas show these same people Loose Change and they wake up!
Its the presentation that really grabs people and i for one have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more successful waking people up with this one. Despite the errors...
It might take them a while to get involved but by then, when they find out the mistakes of LC, they have already made the step...
I think you arent looking at the big picture. There are masses of people out there who either dont know about this or live in denial.
Rattling on about the zionist connection alienates most people (you could say this a product of propaganda over the past century).
Therefore, if your plan is to wake as many people up in this world, reach a critical mass 100th monkey style and smash down the MSM lies then you perhaps ought to reconsider your approach??
To say that most people in the truth movement are disinformation agents without any proof aside from "they dont expose the zionists" is flat wrong.
Please re-read what ian said above. That is how a lot of people feel!
Why not make a video yourself that exposes the zionists if you and other dbs-ers feel so strongly, instead of constantly attacking other people who are in fact on your side!!!
Against evil and tyranny.
Surely waking people up is our priority?? Especially at this stage.
It certainly is mine anyway...to get enough people to force a proper investigation? Leaving no stone unturned.

I appreciate your involvement and desire to expose the criminals but please dont lose sight of what we could achieve and get lost bickering at dylan et.al. No offense but thats pretty much all ive seen you do on here so far.
Thats my 2 pence. Take it or throw it back at me. Wink

Peace

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar wrote:
I saw it when it came out and it is very good on evidence.


-How so? It's chock full of disinfo! Did you watch Screw Loose Change at all?

Quote:
Whereas show these same people Loose Change and they wake up!


They don't wake up at all. What's presented in Loose Change other than disinfo is what is obvious to anyone that is receptive. To doubters: their doubts will appear confirmed with the presentation of the disinfo.

Quote:
Its the presentation that really grabs people and i for one have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more successful waking people up with this one. Despite the errors...


If it's the video it isn't you. Wink Deliberately spreading known disinfo is a disservice to the movement. If you get any credit; it's for discrediting the truth.

Quote:
I think you arent looking at the big picture.


The big picture is about Zionism. Exposing Zionism exposes how the US is being used as pawns in helping Israel's unjust land grabbing. US Soldiers may actually quit when they realise they're doing treasonous work. When they realise the money they're earning may be worthless while the Country that sent them there is making itself bankrupt to bless Israel. The big picture is that we've been fooled into hating Muslims and thinking they're actually terrorists. 911 wasn't an inside job after all. The US government has been infiltrated and Bush and some ghey secret society wouldn't be enough to pull off what a whole Country with motivation, plants, and religious support could. It's you that stears people away from the big picture. We need activists; not disinfo agents.

Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land

Quote:
To say that most people in the truth movement are disinformation agents without any proof aside from "they dont expose the zionists" is flat wrong.


Spreading disinfo (what you're doing) is flat wrong. Paraphraising is flat wrong. Go look in the mirror.

Quote:
It certainly is mine anyway...to get enough people to force a proper investigation? Leaving no stone unturned.


A proper investigation? - A waste of time! You've had how long to get this done, and you're still carrying on about a proper investigation? - Pooh! It's never gonna happen. Awareness of Zionism is of utmost importance.

Quote:
I appreciate your involvement and desire to expose the criminals but please dont lose sight of what we could achieve and get lost bickering at dylan et.al.


I'm not bickering with Dylan. That would be a waste of time. I've heard him on telephone interviews. He's obnoxious and interruptive. He's an OBVIOUS zionist denier and not worth the time. These guys want to be stars and are doing it by spreading disinfo, repetition, ineffective bull horning, and diversion from truth. Seriously.. do you want to help them be the next ineffective Alex Jones's?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nah mate. theres just other sides to it.

i've not done much research on the zion thing, but it probably is part of. Although i doubt pnac cares about the zionists.. they have their own motives, which loose change presents evidence to support. its a good doc, despite the speculative bits.. it has some very good points and the demolition of the buildings is presented really well.

basically. I think theres a few groups of people. all with there own agendas. but they met up and came to an agreement to carry out this operation and keep it secret so they can all get a piece of the pie.


and if the US is being used by isreal.. then surely it's enough to expose the members within the us who were complicit

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madthumbs wrote:
They don't wake up at all. What's presented in Loose Change other than disinfo is what is obvious to anyone that is receptive. To doubters: their doubts will appear confirmed with the presentation of the disinfo


Watcha Madthumbs

Knowing you as I do I respect your POV (although you know that my POV is far more in line with what Ian and others have said)

But, with respect, the line Ive quoted above is just no good: if your going to sit on the pot, you have to "go", or the result is just truth constipation

Being a site of thinkers and contemplators as we are here, if you have a specific case about what is "disinfo" in loose change, it will be listened too...but your going to have to put some work in to make it, this isnt Harris's

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madthumbs wrote:
-How so? It's chock full of disinfo! Did you watch Screw Loose Change at all?


WOW. Completely missing what i actually said. I was talking about Painful Deceptions... try reading what i wrote first its quite obvious.

Jim Hoffman did a more credible rebuttal of Loose Change imo. I see he has updated it somewhat:
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/loose_change/index.html

Im sure the makers of Loose Change will take this on board. Its comprehensive and well thought out.
They did so with the 'pod' which was the reason i didnt hand out LC1 or in plane site. Hoffman didnt need to rattle off zionist every other word to make his points either as you need to do, as a clearly committed D-BS convert. I handed LC2 out because it was so powerful, despite the conjecture (which i always mentioned)
I cant view that video on your site. Fails to load everytime nor will it download.
Im guessing it is this though:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-lies-and-deceptions-o f-loose_15.html

Not quite in Hoffmans league is it?

Please re-read what i wrote:
scar wrote:
I saw it when it came out and it is very good on evidence.
However, the voiceover is really annoying, patronising and repetitive.
Everyone i showed it to hated that side of it. It put them off in some cases.
*---->Whereas<-----* show these same people Loose Change and they wake up!


see? Was that deliberate? Or do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Quote:
They don't wake up at all. What's presented in Loose Change other than disinfo is what is obvious to anyone that is receptive. To doubters: their doubts will appear confirmed with the presentation of the disinfo.


I understand where you are coming from.
They didnt really cover anything new at all. They presented existing evidence in a way that made it far more palatable than Painful Deceptions for most people around the world.
That was my point. Its self evident by the impact it has had.
Its a shame they went off into conjecture and theories rather than focusing in on just the evidence. Its far from perfect. But it 'has' awoken people who couldnt be touched before.
Ive seen this firsthand a fair amount...

Quote:
If you get any credit; it's for discrediting the truth.


I dont hand it out now, since the rebuttals and also since the release of whats the truth...why indeed did the towers collapse? which I have found to be very effective. I was talking about the effect Loose Change has had on people. (in the past)
Again, you missed the point.

I didnt see you criticizing Loose Change on concen or anywhere until the rebuttal had come out so climb down off that high horse you're riding. cheers. You arent really discerning truth. You are a repeator. You didnt make the rebuttals did you???
We all do our best. Im not perfect and neither is ANY 9/11 film out there...

Quote:
The big picture is about Zionism. ...........The big picture is that we've been fooled into hating Muslims and thinking they're actually terrorists..................... We need activists; not disinfo agents.


See ians post again. read it this time. Im not saying you are wrong about zionist involvement.
Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I shant be carrying this on after this post. I see little point. I've seen what happens when sites get overrun with DBS-ers - on concen. There is better use of 'our' time. Like gettin out in the real world and doing something about it.
try it sometime. Wink

Quote:
Go look in the mirror.


Ditto. I at least accept that I do not know absolute truth, a good indicator that I do indeed 'look in the mirror'. I remember you from concen. You've got a new weapon. Still got the same arrogance. Sad to see that hasnt changed.

Beliefs are a curious phenomenon. I dont claim to know the exact truth at all.
You do, but you have yet to produce the evidence to back up your beliefs. Nor has your mentor - DBS. Your attacks on everyone out there who dont believe EXACTLY as you do are derived from narrow-mindedness. Little more.
Go make the ultimate video that exposes ALL the perpetrators. I would love to see it. Im sure you would be doing the world a great favour.
Sadly, you wont do this, because you cant. 'yet' not without a new investigation, a new investigation that you dont even want...

Quote:
A proper investigation? - A waste of time! You've had how long to get this done, and you're still carrying on about a proper investigation? - Pooh! It's never gonna happen. Awareness of Zionism is of utmost importance.


So you disagree with most people here that we do need a proper independant investigation... ok.
Could you get a conviction now based only on your zionist evidence? Doubtful.
What of all the work done by scholars for truth or any of the many, many researchers out there who question the official story yet DONT feel the need to point the finger yet?. Just to undo the official story in the public mind as soon as is possible.
I spose they are all zionist-deniers and disinfo agents too? Makes it so easy for you doesnt it. Which is why you cling to it. Its not that simple imo.

Do you consider this site a disinfo site, created by zionist controllers to funnel all dissent away into a black hole? hehehehe i bet you do.

A wise friend said this to me:
"In my view, the 1st thing is that we try to show people they are being lied to. When enough people are aware of this, perhaps the power of those liars -
whomever they are or aren't will fade away"

I agree with that. Do you get it yet?

Quote:
I'm not bickering with Dylan. That would be a waste of time. I've heard him on telephone interviews. He's obnoxious and interruptive. He's an OBVIOUS zionist denier and not worth the time. These guys want to be stars and are doing it by spreading disinfo, repetition, ineffective bull horning, and diversion from truth. Seriously.. do you want to help them be the next ineffective Alex Jones's?


They've been very effective so far in waking people up to the fact that the official story is full of holes. They are doing all they can. I commend them for all their efforts. I would also commend Alex Jones. He has woken many people up. Who woke you up? Alex? He was one of the first to expose it after all. See Road to Tyranny. Check him out on the day if you can find it. Think back to before you woke up. Would someone shouting ZIONIST!! in your face have done it for you then? doubt it...quite the opposite. And that is my whole point. You clearly dont have the ability or desire to try to see into the minds of the many people out there who dont yet know about this at all. The propaganda and the ADL have meant that most people need to see they have been lied to BEFORE they can look at that issue.
For those of us trying to get this out to non internet people these are pertinent points. Things that need to be thought about. Its very important...

I also listened to that phone call, cunningly released by that jealous man. Sour Grapes...
You clearly listen to the D-BS show often as you sound exactly like him. You are pretending to be the purveyor of ultimate truth and discernment, whereas you have gleaned all this information from someone else. That someone consistently fails to provide evidence to back up his poisonous rants.

Reply if you want. I'll probably ignore it as Ive already said. Ive made it clear what i think here and so have you.
You misrepresented what i said and attacked me just like any d-bs borgmind would do.
I wish you all the best exposing the zionists. I will continue to do what i believe is right as will you.

Take care

scar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Scar said, "Madthumbs":

Quote:
To say that most people in the truth movement are disinformation agents without any proof aside from "they dont expose the zionists" is flat wrong.


To suggest that "Most People In The Truth Movement" are "Disinformation Agents" suggests to me (as I've said before and to me seems stating the bl**ding obvious" (and I don't swear much!) that he/she who makes such a suggestion is in effect, what I believe one terms (and I hate this silly phrase really) a "disinformiaton agent."

If (and I very much doubt this) you are a genuine member of the 9/11 Truth Movement, "Madthumbs" then please look at the messages you are giving out, look at yourself, we are all seriously messed up (not just the "Freemasons" and the "Zionists") in this world or we would not be here as I see it!

You appear to be infected by the "virus" I perceive us all to reside in to some extent or other which endeavers to keep us all trapped here by constantly over-complicating all issues and seeking to constantly strive to divide us all.

We need to all point that flashlight at ourselves, not just at the Masons and the Zionists... we are all seriously "Fu**ed Up" in this sphere methinks!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scar,

Superb top quality, wise, intelligent,positive, truth seeking blog to keep us on track with our mission statement:- to secure a full professional independent investigation to expose the truth of the events of 911.

Thanx for that!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here here Scar! - Much better than your usual rambling verbiage Wink Laughing
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scar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwahahaha Wink
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Jane
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Bricks in the wall..... Reply with quote

Quote:
Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I shant be carrying this on after this post. I see little point. I've seen what happens when sites get overrun with DBS-ers - on concen. There is better use of 'our' time. Like gettin out in the real world and doing something about it.
try it sometime.


Just to reinforce the point by quoting from Scar's posting again... I don't know what a DBS-er is but I can guess. It is mainly because I got so naffed off with all the endless arguing with Rachel North on another thread (are any of you aware by the way that she actually lists "arguing" as her favourite activity on one of her "Blog" things!!!) and all the talk about "disinformation agents" and so on that I almost left 9/11 just recently (don't know if anyone noticed!).

Don't let this thread or others with characters like Madthumbs "drag on and on." Most people can see where people are coming from and what they are doing (whether they do this intentionally or not) - cause our group to fragment and turn in on itself - why feed them? Or for that matter insult them? Be polite and state your case as Scar and Ian have done and then DROP IT - And as Scar says, "Get out into the real world" and help to change it for good!

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andyb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post scar.

MadThumbs, all or most of us on this forum have had our eyes opened, hence being here. Once you realise that 911 was an inside job you then do start questioning other events and our perception on what is real and what we are made to believe is real. I showed LC2 to my girlfriend recently and she was outraged at the evidence put forward and understands why I feel the way I do. I've been trying to tell her myself for months yet it took LC2 to get her to really see it. People will wake up in their own time, and I like many others believe LC2 to be a good alarm clock in that respect.

We can't have all this information come out too quickly as it would turn the world into just the place we are trying to stop it becoming. There would be absolute mayhem everywhere. We are calling for a FULL enquiry into 911, this should leave no stone unturned. This will take years but will gradually change the world for the better. A lot of us know after immersing ourselves in research that there are PTB in place but 911 is the strongest tool we have to bring them down. Let's stop all this internal bickering and start doing our bit to change the world.

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TimmyG
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we just need to work to get the truth out there. The bias of the media has reached a ridiculous point which should be acknowledged worldwide.

but with respect to potential social chaos. i don't see any other consequence in the movements success. These guys aren't gonna hold their hands up and take responsiblity. They are going to fight against the truth to the bitter end.

personally i want the movement to succeed in getting the truth acknowledged and the people responsible faced with a serious public confrontation. it can result in no greater chaos than what is happening in the world right now.

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ian neal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to ensure you saw my post below. Clearly madthumbs and one or two other posters here fall into the camp that finds it helpful to denounce people as 'zionist deniers'. Now whether those who shout 'zionist deniers' are the knowing agents of the PTB or merely their unwitting dupes is for each of us to decide. I certainly don't know but I describe my suspicions below.

(And of course there is a third possibility, namely that madthumbs et al is a beacon of truth and it is us that ignore his dark warnings that are the real dupes)......

Jane if you find polarised debates such as ones on the Rachel thread unhelpful, ignore them Wink

ian neal wrote:
Abandoned Ego wrote:
Quote:
The most critical computer and communication networks used by the U.S. government and military are secured by encryption software written by an Israeli "code breaker" tied to an Israeli state-run scientific institution.

Im wondering on who's behalf you believe they are 'running this country' ?

A few words of the friendliest kind of advice. I spent the best part of 3 years shouting Israel , Zion and all the rest of that kinda stuff.

Then one day, I suddenly realised. That is precisely what the PTB want you to spend your time doing. Getting involved in meaningless arguments about who's running who, and inviting the inevitable racist card ( one of their favourites)

Israel is The Anglo/American 'mini-me' in the Middle East.

I only hope you will see this sooner rather than later - for the sake of your sanity Wink


IMO wise words indeed Abandonned Ego.

The PTB do not know or recognise any international borders or boundaries and owe no alligence to any one country, religion or ideology, except the ideology of power and fascism. Sure, I recognise that elements of the Isreali state/MOSSAD are part of this shadowy nexus but to see the workings of the PTB through a national or religious lens is to fall into their trap. That's what they want you to do. Doh

They control or strongly influence both sides of just about any significant debate including the 'zionist debate' and thrive on polarising opinion and sowing hatred, conflict and division. So much easier to pull the strings. So from where I stand I see the hand of PTB behind zealots on both sides of the zionist debate.

Within the 9/11 truth movement I suspect there are agents of PTB who are employed on both sides of debate about the role of 'zionists' in 9/11. Such a strategy precisely mirrors their modus operandi through out history.

On the one side there are those voices who shout: don't talk about Isreal or any evidence that connections Isreal to 9/11. On the other side there are voices who shout, it is all about Isreal/the Zionists. They run the world.

Then ensure that within both camps there are people or organisations that on the one side contain people with suspicious connections to 'zionists'/PTB and on the other side contain people with suspicious connections to the 'far right' or 'anti-semitic' organisations

Next step one side denounces the other as 'anti-semitic' while the other responds with charges 'zionist deniers' and puppets of the PTB.

Gradually up the ante, with personal attacks and defamation and as the noise and mud starts to fly, try to drag unwitting and honest campaigners to engage in an increasingly polarised and antagonistic debate. Then stand back knowing you have created the necessary fear and loathing to derail any popular unified movement.

So naffing obvious.
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Jane
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Fear and Loathing Reply with quote

I have just read what you have written Ian, and I don't fully "understand" it right now but I will come back to it...

All I know is that I myself have kept coming across all this "Zionist" stuff for ages now and I feel there must be something in it (I once read an article about "Time travelling Nazi Jehovah's" which would actually kind of make some kind of sense but we won't go there now!) yet when recently a couple of highly intelligent senior lecturers from my college started to take some kind of interest in what I have been blathering on about for ages and said they would have a look on our board - all I could think was "Please God, don't let them find anything on the "Zionist/Jewish" stuff!” (or in a lesser way the shape shifting repitles/ufos). There are times when just one word someone reads can "say it all"! before they have even read what you are saying - it is not so much a case of "false flag" as just seeing and recognising the flag! Thus white flag means "I surrender" to most people - flag with swastika = Nazi to most people - of cause you may be using it to imply the Hind belief in the wheel of karma and you may have kept it the right way round unlike Hitler who twisted it - but believe me, most people will just see the swastika and make their own quick assumptions!

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http://www.wytruth.org.uk/
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ian neal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here hopefully is a simpler version

There is 'something' in the 'zionist' stuff IMO. Namely that the PTB have been/are closely associated with zionism, but IMO zionism and the zionists are NOT the be all and end all. They are but one faction or wing in an international criminal web
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andyb
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, also worth noting David Ray Griffins points about good vs evil. There may well be powers of good at the top but they are currently outweighed by powers of evil. It is up to us to get rid of this evil, for the good to triumph. It's like our very own little Lord of the Rings, Star Wars etc.
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